As a native Philadelphian, the Jersey shore is like a suburb to me and many other fellow Philadelphians. Spent many a summer in AC when I was a kid.
I'm sure that general economic conditions and perhaps social mores may have much to do with AC's woes. But another factor is competition. I don't gamble ... never had. Just never interested.
Back to the competition point, gambling is becoming widely legalized. I think there may be a casino on the Philly Delaware River waterfront. So ... why schlepp to AC if you can lose a bundle right here in Philly??
AC has struggled for many years. It used to be a place of choice for family vacations. At the turn of the last century, it was THE place to go. Started to get seedy in the 60s and 70s. But with air fare becoming more affordable and many places around the world to vacation, AC just become obsolete like the buggy whip.
Gambling provided temporary relief, starting with Resorts International, back in the 70s or 80s. But even Resorts is gone. Wow ... showing my age again.
Would be kinda nice if AC could recapture its old charm and be a go-to place for families again. Ventnor and Margate are still pretty nice. Cape May is pretty cool. Lots of Victorian home and B&Bs.
Sorry to reminisce. The years are going by at an accelerating rate. |
Audiophiles don't visit casinos to gamble. They go to high end audio stores. |
Dreadhead,
Nothing to feel ashamed or embarrassed by!
You actually have had the opportunity to learn something quite valuable that a lot of so called "audiophiles" have learned the hard way:-)
In your case your sale of uber gear got you funds to put away AND sharpen your senses musically ending in a perfectly satisfying audio system that works for you!!
As we age some of us learn that indeed, less is more
Enjoy your system
Azjake |
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I don't think the problem is gambling....Atlantic City is just a dump. City fathers thought that the casinos would make A/C another Vegas, but no one upgraded anything outside the casino's doors. Step off the boardwalk and you take your life in your hands. |
With unemployment at 14% for most college age millennials and their dept out of control. The last venue many of them need is the hotel casino. |
I saw a news report last week that said either Bergen or Hudson County want put forth a ballot referendum for a few casinos across the river from NYC. If that passes AC will take another very serious hit. With Indian reservation casinos, the casinos in PA, and the racetrack casinos in NY it was only a matter of time before AC couldn't compete. AC had a an almost 20 year Monopoly and blew it! As noted AC proper is still a mess and will never change. Here is an interesting story about the Grand Opening of a grocery store. Apparently they are hard to keep open. http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/communities/atlantic-city_pleasantville_brigantine/atlantic-city-finally-gets-a-new-grocery-store-as-save/article_c46cd4d2-9fc7-11e1-a6b8-0019bb2963f4.html The Fat Cat Casino Barron's were supposed to use a portion of the profits for AC's revitalization, but it looks like all they did was take the money and run! Long Beach Island (I grew up there) is a great family orientated beach resort about 30 mins north of AC, GSP Exit 63. Plenty to do or nothing at all. |
Its because of other states nearby also adapting gambling as a source of income. Atlantic City has competition. Sorry to hear things are not going well there. |
Axjake makes a great point. Still, it's a shame you had to part with your AP Virgos. I hope you enjoy your new system. |
Who would have thought casinos would go belly up? Now that working for a living doesn't cut it anymore the sure way to realize the American dream was buying that lotto ticket, going to the nearest casino, or driving slowly by that all night 7/11 wondering if you have it in you for that quick smash and grab.
All the best,
Nonoise |
They keep proposing more casinos in Upstate NY where I live and most people don't want them. If they build them there will be a bunch of partially filled dumpy casinos around. I don't gamble but I've been to Vegas and AC and part of the fun was packing your bags and going out of town. Who on earth wants to drive 45 minutes to gamble? I just don't get it at all. |
"Who on earth wants to drive 45 minutes to gamble? I just don't get it at all. "
What I mean by this is who wants to drive to a single casino in the middle,or nowhere. The beauty of places like Vegas and AC is that you can casino hop and the area offers many other attractions (Vegas). |
it was once an older crowd pleaser who played the slots and any real gambling was left to high rollers. They the older would come in with their walkers and hit the slots/buffets and listen to some Barry Manilow or when he was alive Jerry Vale. That generation is long gone. Trying to pry the young ones away from their phone screens is no easy task. Madison Ave has no easy task trying to come with an advertising campaign to lore them in. |
"Now that working for a living doesn't cut it anymore the sure way to realize the American dream was buying that lotto ticket, going to the nearest casino, or driving slowly by that all night 7/11 wondering if you have it in you for that quick smash and grab."
You smash and grab jewelry stores, not 7/11's. 7/11's get knocked over. Didn't your family teach you anything growing up? |
My bad. It must be my Irish, English, Swedish and French heritage at work: not remembering the correct phrase, editing the phrase, thinking twice about it and then not giving a damn.
Old Irish highwaymen were kind of brutish but could be charming, depending on the level of inebriation.
All the best,
Nonoise |
Bifwynne, great analysis. I grew up in northern NJ and couldn't agree more. |
Sell your system then gamble the money at AC its good for business!! |
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Bifwynne - I grew up in Pompton Lakes. Graduated from HS there in 1965. How about you? |
Philly boy. Graduated from Northeast H.S. in 1970. AC was just a suburb for me and my buddies. |
For once I agree with EBM. Let's fund the Donald out of his jam! |
I am an Atlantic City High School Alum.Pre the Gambling Era.
By 1960 A/C no longer had anything to offer.
It has even less now |
"07-17-14: Goldeneraguy
I am an Atlantic City High School Alum.Pre the Gambling Era.
By 1960 A/C no longer had anything to offer.
It has even less now"
Not true at all. In AC they can serve alcohol until 6am. Its 2am for the rest of NJ and PA. |
I visited Atlantic City just once circa 1971. It was only about a 2 hour drive for me and I was just wandering. My recollection today is of disappointment at how played out and worn down the whole place seemed. I assumed that I was seeing the skeletal remnant of a former beauty. It was like a town bypassed by the new interstate and left to wither. Or today's metaphor of an American downtown depleted and destroyed by the arrival of WalMart.
My guess is that the great resort city was superseded and rendered obsolete by the introduction of affordable air travel. No doubt New Jersey's notorious family enterprises managed to get gambling legalized so they could take advantage of cheap property values and a central location, between NYC and Philly, to create an East Coast Las Vegas. Apparently it worked for a time, until gambling spread everywhere and once again rendered Atlantic City obsolete. Maybe it will be revived again with legal prostitution or marijuana. Maybe they'll just have to settle for the Chris Christie Archives and Museum. Or a New Jersey Politicians Hall of Fame named for Hugh Addonizio. |
As a kid our family took our vacations in Ocean City just South of AC. It was a very nice place. It has been well over 40 years since our last family gathering there. Last time I was in AC was within a few years after Resorts, Harrahs, Playboy Club and the Golden Nugget were the name gamers, over 30 years ago. What was so striking was the boardwalk area and the rest of the city which was squalid and seedy much like I always remembered that place. It seems that greed always overtakes hope in the long run but then again hope was short lived after reality set in for those that live or lived in AC during those times and now. |
"My guess is that the great resort city was superseded and rendered obsolete by the introduction of affordable air travel. No doubt New Jersey's notorious family enterprises managed to get gambling legalized so they could take advantage of cheap property values and a central location, between NYC and Philly, to create an East Coast Las Vegas. Apparently it worked for a time, until gambling spread everywhere and once again rendered Atlantic City obsolete. Maybe it will be revived again with legal prostitution or marijuana. Maybe they'll just have to settle for the Chris Christie Archives and Museum. Or a New Jersey Politicians Hall of Fame named for Hugh Addonizio."
It was a good idea, but they just put it in a very bad place. The city of AC was, and still is, as disaster. You have the hotels and the boardwalk, but that's it. Its not like Vegas where you can walk around and do stuff besides gambling. People are afraid to walk around in AC. |
I grew up playing cards and I played in lots of AC casinos mainly at poker tables. Once I lost the job, I had to jump on to the taxi and one day found a passenger all the way to AC from NYC. When I dropped passenger and invested part of fare onto the large (near 1500 players) tournament at Borgata poker room and stayed there till the break to the next day with descent stack to move further. Than end of next day I reached the final table, took home large prise and dropped taxi to the garage and never returned back behind the wheel. All I did is to claim unemployment check and make my necessary living conservatively mainly at limit tables, but sometimes would allocate liquid funds towards tournaments periodically.
New Parx poker palace and casino is super as well and it obviously took part of Pennsilvanians, Philly residents there instead so AC with it's large casino arsenal has lost quite a chunk of players going now to Parx at shorter distance. |
Sorry to disappoint those who feel it's another chance to blame the economy, but my fellow Fluffian, Bifwynne nailed it.
Up until several years ago, AC served as the only place to gamble. Aside from internet gambling, we now have access to more than a dozen new casinos outside of Atlantic City. Everyone knew the impact would hit the shore, with casualties coming out of it. |
Did Sandy ravage AC? Did the hotel and casino owners get compensation for their bankrupt businesses? I understand N.J. has experienced corruption and cronyism at times. |
Trelja,
In my case I have every right to blame the economy, and I'm quite sure the current economy has taken its toll on the casual gambler as well. Don't sit on your high horse making statements about something you obviously know very little about, being forced to sell your system due to sixteen months of unemployment on top of which the Republican Party felt as of the first of the year I was not eligible for anymore governmental assistance. When you have to choose between paying your mortgage or having a high end system then get back to me about the current economy. |
AC is closing due to internet gambling being legal in NJ. No need to leave your house, pay for gas, drinks, dinner. |
@Macrojack- Sandy did minimal damage to AC as compared to the towns north. The eye came ashore just south in Sea Isle City with the winds whipping in a circular fashion about 50-100 miles north. Hence all the serious damage in Ocean County and north to NYC.
AC was a victim of it's own success where everyone (unions) tried to cash in. Back when Trump built the Taj he bragged that it cost $1 billion to build. The same size casino resort in Vegas ran about 1/3 of that.
AC dropped the ball on making it more of a family resort. A family of 4 could go to Las Vegas and have a great vacation without ever stepping foot on the casino floor. Ac was all about gambling and not much of a family venue.
As noted by many, the proliferation of online gambling with PA and NY building casinos, AC has lost its customer base. |
So AC benefited from being the only game in town until it no longer enjoyed that distinction. Apparently being a one trick pony was its real cause of failure.
In addition, it sounds like the investors just wanted to milk it to death while investing nothing to broaden its appeal. Strip miners, if you'll pardon the pun.
Seems like a corollary to what is happening across America. Everything now is about the immediate take with no concern for those who will follow. We'll be cleaning up and rebuilding behind the corporate raiders for a long time ---- if we survive them at all. |
@Macrojack-No truer words could have been written about how money is made in the US. In most Asian countries, China to be specific, investment is carefully thought out to benefit the generations to come. Here investors are more concerned about the next quarterly report. Then again there are Bears like Warren Buffett, perhaps there is something to the long term investment strategy? |
"@Macrojack-No truer words could have been written about how money is made in the US. In most Asian countries, China to be specific, investment is carefully thought out to benefit the generations to come. Here investors are more concerned about the next quarterly report."
You guys just pick out the facts that you want and ignore the facts you don't like. Look at how money is made in China. The cost of pollution and keeping the environment clean, doesn't apply to them. They do whatever they want without restriction. Pollution is irrelevant. They don't recognize pattens or copyrights. The fact that almost all other countries do is also irrelevant. Lets not forget how they treat their people; like animals. How would you like to have a job in China? You don't get a 15 min break for every 4 hours you work like you do in the US. They do, however, have child labor laws that are pretty fair. They make sure every kid has a job.
Maybe you guys should go over there and see what its like first hand. Just be sure not to commit any crimes or your first hand may become your last hand. |
Hey I'm the one who mentioned China so please don't bring Macrojack into your rant!
Perhaps you should learn more about US history in regards to industry building. Very nasty stuff before the work place became "civilized" |
"Hey I'm the one who mentioned China so please don't bring Macrojack into your rant!"
Sorry. It looked like he was agreeing with you, so I thought the comment was fair.
"Perhaps you should learn more about US history in regards to industry building. Very nasty stuff before the work place became "civilized""
Maybe, but you were the one who brought up China and the US in a modern context. But since you bring up history, a lot has happened since the dawn of the industrial revolution. At least in the US. How long do think its going to take China to catch up with our standards? |
Dreadhead, "When you have to choose between paying your mortgage or having a high end system then get back to me about the current economy."
While mortgages and high-end audio kit have a corollary in the economy, the Atlantic City casino situation does not. Again, gamblers in this area now have access to more than a DOZEN new casinos outside of Atlantic City, not including those opened in MD, NY and the New England states. That obviously siphons an appreciable amount of clientele from the Boardwalk. Gambling numbers have actually increased significantly since Atlantic City held a monopoly in this part of the country, but my point remains others made moves toward not letting the shore town have it all.
By the way, I hope your circumstances have turned for the better... |
"07-19-14: Dreadhead
Trelja,
In my case I have every right to blame the economy, and I'm quite sure the current economy has taken its toll on the casual gambler as well. Don't sit on your high horse making statements about something you obviously know very little about, being forced to sell your system due to sixteen months of unemployment on top of which the Republican Party felt as of the first of the year I was not eligible for anymore governmental assistance. When you have to choose between paying your mortgage or having a high end system then get back to me about the current economy."
Sorry, but I have to agree with Trelja on that one. Sure you have the right to blame anyone for anything you like. (Assuming you live in a place like the US. You don't have that right in China.) But when it comes right down to it, you not having any money is your fault. There's plenty of money out there. If you want some, go get it. But to cry about not getting your full 99 weeks of unemployment and then blaming it on some political party, is simply pathetic. You sound like a little kid. |
Borgata is still rockin' with best tournaments and table games. Haven't had much luck in other AC casinos. Those that are closing will turn onto hotels, resorts and will still generate income. No tragedy here and all gamblers even those who want to sell system and invest into casinos are still going to be accommodated. |
Trelja, I don't deny any of your observations regarding the demise of gambling in AC and greatly appreciate your concerns of my financial stability. I am recently back to work and am starting to get back on my feet. As Zd542 so ignorantly reminds us it's very easy to blame the victim.
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Congratulations on the new position, Dreadhead!
Keep your head down, keep plugging, and have faith in things returning to some level of normalcy for you.
If I may ask, what area of the country do you live in, and what is your field of employment? |
"As Zd542 so ignorantly reminds us it's very easy to blame the victim."
Yes, but its easiest of all to play the victim.
"I am recently back to work and am starting to get back on my feet."
Good for you. If you were still on unemployment, you wouldn't have that new job. |
One of the great prevailing myths in American society is that poor people deserve to be poor and rich people deserve to be rich. Sometimes it's true, but just as often it's not. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug and it's not like you had a choice in what role you get dealt. |
Onhwy61, It's true approximately 98%.
Poor pays higher interest rate, often higher tax, higher insurance and very often can't get a descent job.
This time most of our taxes for over decade past spent to support military mob games run by our beloved Government instead of supporting economy, education and farming. This greatly benefits monopolists of oil industry that are wealthiest part of our nation that becomes wealthier and welathier ta make sure the "rich gets rich and poor stays poor"(quoted from Leo Cohen's song "Everybody Knows")...
"Everybody Knows" weather it's Republicans or Democrats everything's controlled by ones who moves funds and those can easily move'em out of your personal wallet weather you want it or not while you can't do vice versa. |
"07-23-14: Onhwy61
One of the great prevailing myths in American society is that poor people deserve to be poor and rich people deserve to be rich."
I've heard the saying, but one of out great prevailing myths? Where did you find that info?
"07-23-14: Czarivey
Onhwy61, It's true approximately 98%.
Poor pays higher interest rate, often higher tax, higher insurance and very often can't get a descent job."
Being poor does not mean you pay higher interest rates. Your credit rating determines that. Poor people that pay their bills, get low interest rates. Higher taxes? Other than a mistake, I don't see how that's possible. Higher insurance is also nonsense. First of all, charging someone higher insurance based on their income is illegal. Insurance is based on risk. If you have a good driving record, you get a low rate; even poor people. If you take good care of yourself, you get a lower health insurance rate. Jobs? Every well off person I know was poor at one time.
Do I have to continue? It just looks like you guys are picking things out just to argue over. Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good. If someone has a good work ethic and doesn't commit crimes, may have something to do with how successful they are. Wouldn't you agree? And if you do, why not include that in your posts, as well? |
Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good. But you just did that. Being poor usually means you live in a poor neighborhood. Your zip code heavily influences your credit and insurance rates. As a percentage of their income, poor people pay higher taxes (including sales taxes, gas surcharges, taxes on utilities, etc) than poor people. And as far as not committing crimes and having a good work ethic, the NYPD walked up to a man in broad daylight and choked him to death for apparently having those two qualities. Poor people have little say in what activities are considered crimes and that is a large part of the reason why jails are filled with poor people. Do I have to continue? |
One needs only to google predatory lending practices to see how badly the poor are marginalized and screwed.
I'll continue.
One needs only to google redlining practices in insurance rates and discover that although it's illegal, it's still done through other means (I used to work in insurance so don't try to tell me otherwise).
I'll continue.
What we take as added costs (taxes, surcharges, fees) amount to total, all consuming costs for the poor. Every penny they make or procure goes right out the door. So yes, they are the hardest hit and it's not their fault. They just have the smallest voice in government and are the last anyone pays attention to.
Except to denigrate.
All the best,
Nonoise |
"07-23-14: Onhwy61
Selecting only ideas and facts that just supports your argument just so you can win, does no one any good.
But you just did that."
I agree. You did one side, I did the other.
"Being poor usually means you live in a poor neighborhood. Your zip code heavily influences your credit and insurance rates."
They can't factor your zip code in for credit. Its not allowed, check it if you don't believe me. For some types of insurance, they can. Whether or not the zip heavily determines your rate has very little to do with income. For example, if you live in an area that has very bad wheather, yes, you can have high HO rates. But that has nothing to do with your income, everyone pays high rates.
"As a percentage of their income, poor people pay higher taxes (including sales taxes, gas surcharges, taxes on utilities, etc) than poor people."
Maybe. You have to take that on a case by case basis. Don't forget everyone has to pay those taxes. Also, don't forget to factor in poor people are usually exempt from most, if not all income tax. (Yes, I know they're exempt because they're poor, but it still helps. That's why its done.)
" And as far as not committing crimes and having a good work ethic, the NYPD walked up to a man in broad daylight and choked him to death for apparently having those two qualities."
I don't mind having a debate, but that statement really has no place in this discussion. You're singling out one extreme exception, and when you really look at the incident, the Cop was 100% at fault, regardless of whatever his excuse was. You're smarter than that.
" Poor people have little say in what activities are considered crimes and that is a large part of the reason why jails are filled with poor people."
I think we are going to have to disagree on that one. Personally, I feel its an insult to law abiding poor people to make a statement like that. (I know you didn't mean it to be an insult, I'm just saying.) Our laws are not perfect and they never will be, but I feel you're making a choice when you commit illegal activity. There's plenty of poor people who play by the rules and get by.
"07-23-14: Nonoise
One needs only to google predatory lending practices to see how badly the poor are marginalized and screwed."
Its definitely a problem. There is some partial progress being made on that one. But don't forget, credit issues like this don't effect only poor people. You can make a very good case that reckless credit practices, on both sides of the fence, have turned middle and upper class people into poor people. Common sense and personal responsibility can go a long way.
"One needs only to google redlining practices in insurance rates and discover that although it's illegal, it's still done through other means (I used to work in insurance so don't try to tell me otherwise)."
That whole statement is a little vague. I do work in insurance. I'm fully licensed in both P&C and Life & Health in 3 states, as well as having my related Fed securities licenses. I think what you are talking about exists like you say, but the problem is no where near large enough to make a case for keeping poor people poor. Actually, I'm surprised that you don't bring up the biggest problem with insurance companies; paying out legitimate claims. They're absolute scumbags when it comes to that.
"What we take as added costs (taxes, surcharges, fees) amount to total, all consuming costs for the poor. Every penny they make or procure goes right out the door. So yes, they are the hardest hit and it's not their fault. They just have the smallest voice in government and are the last anyone pays attention to."
Why is it not their fault? I've had my ups and downs, and at times I was definitely poor. But it was my fault. I'm the one that made a bunch of jackass decisions that led to the result. I know people will probably take offense to this, but for most poor people, it is they're fault they have no money. I understand there can be exemptions, but people just don't do enough to help themselves. You also mention the poor having a small voice in government and no one pays attention to them. Nothing could be further from the truth. With all the billions that we spend on programs that help the poor, we just get very little positive results. Great attention is paid, its just not working. |
The poor may not pay higher taxes percentage wise, but interest rates depend on how good a persons credit score is. So is the rate of auto ins. 5 years ago I checked ins. rates for pilot escorts and it averaged about 3800.00 per year. Mine would have been 1965.00 (if I wanted the job) When I asked my insurance agent why mine was so much lower, it was due to my high credit rating. Wish I could buy highend equipment (for cash) because of that. |
