Sound of chip amps / gainclones?

Thanks, Tvad and Gmood1. I have written to Peter and asked for his thoughts. We'll see what he says. I am currently using a pretty nice amp (Pass 250.5) -- any thoughts on what will be gained or lost if Peter makes me up a set that will work with my speakers and set-up? Thank you,

Honestly I wouldn't have a clue my friend. As far as I can tell you have a great system as is. I haven't spent enough time with the Pass amplifiers or any time with the VR4 to make a judgement. Since VS doesn't publish response graphs it's tough to know how the Pateks will fair.No doubt the Pass amplifier is a brute designed to drive a tough load when called to do so.
Two very different designed amplifiers for two different types of speakers.

Something tells me you're considering or will end up with a more efficient speaker in the future.;-) The Patek is a very low parts count design which could have its advantages when used with the right speakers. Same would go for the Pass on traditional designed speakers with crossovers that have lower impedances and crazy electrical phase angles.

If you plan to go crossover-less, then the Patek or some other low parts,medium to low wattage design like the Pass FW3 would be my choice. In the end, I think what ever speakers you decide to use will make the decision for you.
For low volume listening the HE crossover-less speakers will be hard to beat.

The Patek sounds like what ever you put infront of it. It will cover up nothing. The smallest change can be heard. So tube preamps are a lot fun as you can swap the tubes and hear the differences immediately without any guessing... even with a preamp that you aren't familiar with. It is extremely fast and transparent..there is no blurring of strings..etc.

For example, I had a very good internet audiophile buddy to mail me a demo cd from Sass microphones. This demo cd has all types of sounds from crashing waves to jet planes taking off to live acoustic music with drums..etc. There's one track where there's a person playing a drum kit...pretty hard at that.During the track I kept hearing a rattling as I played this over and over. At first I thought something was loose on the speaker. After further investigation I determined I was hearing the rattling of the metal ring around the base of the drum where you tighten down the skin with the wing type nuts. I was shocked that ...Not only could I hear the skin rattle on the drum set but I could hear the rattling of the entire drum. I've never heard this before except when watching a good friend play his drums 3 feet from me.Like I said the amplifier covers up nothing!LOL

Good listening

I recently had some people over for a listening session and had the opportunity to hear Peter Daniel's Patek in my system. The preamp I was using was a Joule Electra LA-100 MkIII. In comparison to my custom TRL D-225 amp the Patek held its own. While it wasn't as transparent and lacked some of the detail, it drove my 88db efficient Spendor 1/2e speakers nicely. Considering the cost, this is a nice amplifier. I have dealt with Peter in the past concerning his DAC and found him to be extremely helpful and a very good designer.

Hi Tony..you should hear the Patek on a speaker with no crossovers and a fair impedance. Believe me ..the amplifer is extremely transparent when not bogged down by crossovers and wild impedance swings. I would expect the D-225 to come out on top where more power and heavy load capabilities are needed. I'm confident the results would have been the opposite on the proper speaker matching. This would be like me comparing a SET 10 wpc to a 500 wpc Pass amplifier on 88dB speakers that are 4 ohms..the winner is obvious. LOL

Cheers

Gymane, you are more knowledgable on the Patek than I am so I trust your opinion. Your example with the flea powered SET versus the high powered sold state makes sense as this is why I went solid state just recently. I wasn't about to give up my Spendor's and while my 50 watt triode push/pull did a nice job, it wasn't getting the most out of the speakers. SET amps, while recommended by Spendor (they really like the Audio Note amps with their speakers), didn't cut it for me either.

The person who owns the amp uses Audio Physic speakers with a 90db effiency rating and 4ohms impedance. Perhaps that is a better match, altough from what I have been told the Spendor's I have are pretty flat along 8ohms. I suppose this is a good example of how important system matching is.