what is the REAL deal with DK

Snofun, my post was actually meant for Charlie101. In regards to specs, they definetly stand for competent engineering. In this industry there are people who will convince you that if you rub your interconnect a certain way that your system will sound better. So this brings me to my question Charlie, how do you determine that the amps on your list crush the DK? It is all based on whim, and this is completely subjective.

Finally, in regards to uninformed/uneducated audiophiles you are the best example of that. A flat frequency response definitely does not determine the quality or performance of a speaker since even the cheapest 50 cent drivers can be equalized to be flat. However, in order for an amplifier to put out a perfect square wave this requires it to act like an almost perfect voltage source, with an incredible fast rise time, and signal tracking accuracy. This does translate into better sound.

I challange you to find a cheap amplifier with a good squarewave response. You will see that all cheap and low quality amps have a terrible square wave. This is the one spec that really does tell you a lot about the quality of a component.

charlie101, I would bet a lot of people feel sorry for you. Have you ever had anything to say that was remotely positive on any audio subject on this website? I think everybody know's your opinion on this amp, there really is no need for you to post anymore on my thread. I would like to hear from people that have real world EXPERIENCE with the dk, and again if anyone has heard my amp(cayin ta-30) AND the dk, please give your opinions!

Audioari1, I'm still waiting for you to address my questions to you in terms of you trashing Jadis integrateds.

I understand and can appreciate your fondness for the DK product. While not in the camp that is anti - DK, I will also say that whatever measurement is thrown out as being relevant, it's the way a component reproduced MUSIC, and not things such as square waves, that means the most to me.

I don't listen to square waves, so I am less concerned about them then perhaps other people. If I'm choosing between two products, one that does a terrific job on a square wave then another, but the latter sounds better when I put music through it, I'll buy the second 1000 times out of 1000. Whatever people think of me for that is fine.

Now, back to Jadis. You disparaged the products in comparison with the DK. That's fine, if you have actually heard the Jadis amplifiers you listed, we just chalk it up to my audio mantra, "that's why they make vanilla AND chocolate." However, please tell me the actual Jadis pieces you have encountered, and what their issues were. Please understand that there are members on this site who do not sit back while products they respect, as you do with the DK, are pooh poohed. I listen to a lot of audio products, and have my own ranking for them. Most of the time, I understand personal preferences, but statements like the DK walking over the Jadis products you listed I think need to be fleshed out.

I owned an Orchestra Reference for 6 years, and currently own a DA30 and DA60. In the period that I have purchased the two I own now, I could have bought a DK, and while again, I like the DK, you see where I put my money. Briefly, in my own biased opinion, the list of products that play music better than Jadis is an INCREDIBLY small one. I admire the DK, and Larry Staples and I are friends (what a good man), but I'm sorry, I have to tell you I think the DK is not on that list. It's not trashing the product by any means, as I don't really encounter products that do beat the Jadis.

Trelja,

I misunderstood me. I never said that the square wave behavior of an amplifier should form the basis of a buying decision for an audiophile and a music lover. The square wave response is only an indication of competent engineering and a good quality, well manufactured piece of equipment. It should serve only as an indicator that this particular component is worth checking out, simply because there is a high degree of chance that it might turn out to be a terrific performer. But of course, if after some listening the listener doesnt like the sound there is no reason whatsoever that he should buy this component. As in the case of Halcro, the company has terrific measurements but not everyone likes the sound of their equipment.

On to Jadis. I never said that Jadis was a bad amplifier. I said that the particular audiogon member who was looking specifically for an amplifier that has great bass, dynamics, lots of power, and good midrange reproduction at the same time. I think the Jadis is sublime at capturing certain types of musical pieces, particularly small scale quartets and closely miked female vocals. But I am sorry, it WILL fall appart on say Mahler Symphony #5 played at realistic volume levels or Tchaikovsky Overture 1812. Or any kind of high energy rock music, the Jadis simply will not keep up with the DK. Have you ever tired playing Metallica through the Jadis?

But ultimately I think the Jadis is an awesome amp and depending on the speakers and listening preferences it may just be the ticket for a serious music lover.

Well, Audioari1, I half agree with you in terms of the square wave. Your comment on the Halcro is more in line with how I feel. I'll leave it at if an amplifier reproduces a square wave beautifully I can say that it defintely reproduces a square wave beautifully. Again, I don't listen to square waves...

Now, you keep on talking about "the" Jadis amplifier. I am asking you WHICH ONE? Not to back you into a corner, but you really need to convince me that you have actual experience with a Jadis for me to take this comments seriously

The DA30 that I own does not blow you back, but with my speakers (Coincidents and Frieds), I can push 95 dB out of it. Not exactly rocking, but louder than most audiophiles go. For that, I will say you are correct. The DK should wipe it up in terms of power and slam. Still, it's quite an authoritative little amp prior to running out of steam.

With my JOR, I listened at my normal volumes of 95 dB at my chair, which is over 105 dB at the speaker cones. With NO strain whatsoever at the amplifier. 110 - 115 at the speaker cone was probably where it began to go into what we call "tube blow" - where the sound gets wooly.

And, finally, with my DA60, I have no measured it yet, but I can tell you, it will play as loud as the biggest of headbangers demands, and I have not pushed it yet.

I feed my amplifiers a steady diet of Metallica, NWA, The Cure Mixed Up, Kraftwerk, and whatever else you care to name outside of classical music, and consistently produce 120 dB at the cones of my speakers with no issue whatsoever. I do this regularly whether I want to listen loud or not, as Bud Fried convinced me it is good for a driver, as it lowers its mechanical Q. I'm not the typical audiophile. I don't go any higher than that, but if you need more, please let me know.