Jadis Orchestra Reference SE and DA-50 Integrateds

Bill, take the Jadis specs with a grain of salt...

For example, on their own website, they list the JA800 as using 4 KT90 output tubes, a fraction of what the number is in reality. Also, the Class A/B JOR is listed as consuming 300 watts, while the pure Class A DA30 using the same output tubes uses 240 watts? I doubt it...

I believe the DA60 is $11K+. The JOR for $2900 is a really nice deal, the DA50, IMHO, at $6500 seems quite dear. Then again, to get most of what the DA60 offers, maybe it is a good deal. While the prices seem high to me, when you compare them to buying separates, spending as much, and not doing as well sonically, maybe I need to adjust my thinking?

Oh, one other thing, despite what just about everyone will tell you, go for the tone controls if you settle on the JOR. Being able to tilt the bass up two clicks sounded very right in many cases to me.

Paul, my heart goes out to you over the Katrina tragedy. Thankfully, you seem to have landed on your feet. I think you are very wise in your thinking. But, I will say that me and Richard Grey are in total disagreement when it comes to the Ei KT90.

I used to think they were great tubes as well, and there is no more robust tube on the market. But, when I retubed my JOR for Denis (Springbok10), it is difficult to express how much better the amplifier got. Yes, the KT90 make more power, and yes, they are the most extended in the bass and treble. But, being able to flesh out the midrange versus having a more cold, sterile sound is a tradeoff anyone who falls in line with what we talked about Jadis offering will make every day of the week. Both the KT88 and the EL34 were several steps ahead, in short, you have no idea how much better your JOR can really sound until you are ready for a retube.

Aball, what about a DA30 or a DA60 in lieu of the JOR versus the DA50? That way, you can run either the EL34 or the KT88, depending on where you are along the way. Based on my feeling, cost, and your opinion, things are starting to tilt towards the JJ Blue Glass E34L in my DA60, though Avi Brand is not an EL34 fan, he is trying to steer me to the KT88.

Denis, it's hard to put into words how happy I am that you are enjoying the JOR as much as you do. It's a shock, actually, you have a murderer's row of equipment in the big system. Obviously, to impress you is an accomplishment. I was more than a bit nervous when it went up to you, as you had tried and rejected a number of highly rated components. But, your endorsement is something that Jadis must be extremely proud of. I doubt you'll be going back to the Ei KT90 tubes...

Joe
Though I don't like to change out tubes, cause as you know there is a trade off.
However you do may the comment in the "coldness" of the JOR with the KT90's. Now folks reading this may not understand that the JOR with the KT90's is a very nice sound, I just rated it 9 in the mids on another topic.
But the coldness is undeniably there. Since I listen to all classical, with little need for extentions in the highs/lows, I may be very interesed in getting the KT88's. A tube that Richard did highly praise for its unique characterists, as you explain. That day at my home, he praised the KT90's and the KT88's for their qualities.
Can you tell me if the mids will have that same detail on the 88's that I now have on the 90's.
I don't want a muddled mid image, but would like atad more warmth.
Am I clear?
btw whats a set of 88's gonna run me.
I need to get back to New Orleans and ck up on Richard's shop on Jefferson Hwy. Last time I talked to him was just before the storm, we talked about retubing my Cayin 17 with 4 high quality tubes vs the stock tubes.
Although not all of Metairie flooded, his area I believe was flooded. His TV repair shop was across from Ochner hospital. The front door was street level so I'm sure it was bad. Yes I know, STREET LEVEL, many houses in greater new orleans were built STREET LEVEL.
All of lakeview/most of new orleans is a ghost town, With only chat of rebuilding houses. But so far lakeview/gentilly remains as it was the day Katrina hit, with some houses gutted, many are not.
Do you have a contact # for Richard?
Paul

Just gor off the phone with Richard Grey, he is doing OK. Richard rode the storm out at his house uptown new orleans, off Carrollton.
His house had damage from a fallen tree and his business had very little damage. I was very gald this great guy made out all right.

Joe which KT88's are you refering to?
Price?
I really don't want to spend over say...$50/tube.
Paul

Hello, Paul. Glad to hear that Richard is doing well. From all accounts, he is a really good person.

If you have little need for ultimate bass extension, but prize midrange "rightness" over absolutely all else, the JJ Blue Glass E34L tube is for you. In my experience, no tube will provide you with better clarity, openness, imaging, and "sunny disposition", while not sounding harsh, overly forward, brittle, or muddled. I think the treble is also quite good. You do take somewhat of a step back in terms of absolute power (2 clicks on the JOR's volume knob), and the loss of bass impact is definite. You can pick up a quad of these tubes for about $65, so being just over $15/tube, they definitely meet your budget. After speaking with Denis, and going over this sonic priorities, we chose these tubes, and I was not quite prepared for the improvement they yielded.

If the loss of power and bass is unacceptable, the JJ KT88 are the ones we are speaking of. They provide ultimately less absolute bass extension, but apparent bass impact will seem to rise (and not subtly), as the mid/upper bass is more pronounced, and most people in my experience seem to equate mid/upper bass with what they think is actually low bass. You will lose that wonderful midrange by a step or two, but it still would be a real upgrade over the Ei KT90. Prices are much higher than the E34L, about $150/quad or so, which still easily falls within your budget.

I want to make sure no one takes me as not being a fan of the Ei KT90. The tubes are the most rugged I have encountered, and for those who want no one area to stick out, they do seem to provide that. Also, prices have come down in recent years, as they spiked sharply after the 1998 NATO bombing of the factory in the former Yugoslavia. Still, while liking the JOR a lot with these tubes, I ended up loving it when I tried the others.

Incidentally, Denis, if you are still here, what type of difference did the Mullard 12AX7 provide you over the Ei? In my DA30 over the summer, I originally had a pair of National, and the Ei were a step up. Then, I tried a pair of Mullard Blackburns, and that also yielded some tangible improvements over the Ei, with no drawbacks that I could detect. Clarity, detail, bass response all improved, along with adding more liquidity and a relaxed nature. I'm curious if the Mullards also gave you the same improvement as I heard over the Ei.

Joe, I'm sold on the EL34's. Can you provide a link or know of a seller that can help me?
Email me if you care.
Also can you help me out with replacing the 4 6992's in my Cayin 17 cdp.
I'm really looking forward to the EL34's.
Should be just the thing for reproducing my classical music.