Good tube pre amp for a mostly digital system

Surprised nobody mentioned Audible Illusion given it's sales and mpoularity as a loid glass pre.Depoends a lot on how much "bloom" you want.Some tube pre's dont' sound very "tubey" any m,ore.More and more solid state has attributes of tube gear )warmth,holography,more natural midrange) but tube gear (especially pre's) have more extended frequency extremes and tigher,punchier bass.I would say that in poast with a tarde off for noise that Conrad Johnson would give most "tube sound" (maybe certain AR models) but now CJ is less noisy and has better overall sound (bass not as "loose").You need to read about various pre's.But I think TVAD is right you will get different sound but if you expect "Nirvana" in a box you might not get it.Yet still might be good move.Alternately the better op amps in some digital players means that forgoing pre might be your ticket.Many audiophiles want sound of source and amp and nothing from pre,a pre that has no signature,Some go with passives but because they have constricte dynamics in general I am not one of them.So many models out there do your research and try to listen when and where you can.If you go to ww.6moons.com the not cheap Supratek will be their editors choice (I liek thier Blue Moon awards).Stereophiles buying guide gives so many choices it just shows what's out there not narrowing down choices.Also ask at Audio Advisor.Features,the difference in what tubes are used (poular EL34's which I use excell in mids.KT88's have more dynamic kick and bass control etc).Like I said some want not to hear it at all but to me I's say listenm to CJ,AR,neutral BAT,bang for buck Rogue or Modwright,Audible Illusions etc could take thoguht and time to listen.But because many feel it's signature not just function is the "heart of the system" when matched soudn wise with your gear and your ears the quest can be fun and really pay off.
Chazz

Chazz, keep in mind that Mariasplunge is looking for balanced outputs for her Rowland amps. I think this would leave out CJ, AI, Hovland, Rogue, and many other tube preamps.

Mariasplunge, if you're thinking about a tuner and a turntable down the road, I would think that you would want a preamp. Maybe even a preamp with a built in phono stage, like the Aesthetix Janus. The Janus is similar to the highly rated Calypso line stage, but has a rendition of the Aesthetix Rhea phono preamp built in. I'm not saying that you have to get a preamp with a built in phono stage, but if you are thinking of getting a turntable, I would recommend getting a preamp, and a phono stage is another consideration. You'll have to decide if you want a preamp with an internal phono stage or have a seperate phono stage. You cannot just plug a turntable into any line input. This is something you should consider.

Either way, if you are considering additions in the future, I'd ditch the Bel Canto DAC/preamp and try running the Marantz through a nice tube preamp. The AA is the only unit that I would run straight into SS amps. I have to have tubes somewhere in the chain. :)

BTW, you can't run the Marantz straight into the Rowland's, you must have some kind of a volume control (preamp). I just think the Marantz DAC's will sound better than the Bel Canto's. They do to me anyway. Can you use the Bel Canto as a preamp only? Or do you have to use the DAC section too?

John

John,
Thanks for the info. So I checked out the BAT's. Some of them have a phono stage however, some have told me that they are too trnasparent and in mostly digital system like mine, the BAT's might not add that warmth.

Secondly, the Cary SL-05, which was my first choice, must now take the back seat due to the fact that it has no phono stage. so audio research except for front end gear, I really don't find it appealing asthetically.

So the janus possibly, what else is there? I'll try the marantz hooked directly to a pre once I get one. Any other suggestions for players that function well with tube pre's.

Also, is what I have heard of the BAT true, too transparent. Anyone with expreience with these.

Cheers

Well I've heard every complaint about BAT out there. Too transparent, too dark, etc. These are contradictory by the way. Too transparent usually means bright, and I know folks who think that BAT's are too dark, so it's probably a synergestic thing.

I'm expecting a BAT VK-32SE in tomorrow (Friday) for an audition. I've owned BAT VK-31SE, VK-50SE and VK-51SE. I've also owned CJ Premier 16LS mk II, VAC Renaissance mk II, Cary SLP-98. I would say that the CJ, VAC and Cary may sound a little 'tubier', but the BAT was much better with dynamics, power, extension and soundstage. The BAT is not the warmest tube preamp out there if that's what you're looking for, but it has actual bass definition that the 'tubey' sounding preamps don't have. The BAT definitely has tube like characteristics, more so than any solid state preamps, but some tube-o-philes like syrupy sweetness, which the BAT doesn't have. The other side is that the sweeter tube preamps don't have the power and dynamics of the BAT. Pick your poison.

FWIW, the ARC Ref 3 is also supposedly a great preamp, but with no phono. I personally do not want a preamp with an inboard phono stage though, because all of those tubes are running all of the time, even if you're listening to cd's and not using the phono tubes, the phono tubes are still burning.

For example, the Aesthetix Janus has 4 line section tubes, just like the Calypso, but it also has 8 tubes in the phono stage. So all 12 tubes are running all the time, whether you're listening to vinyl, cd, tuner, or whatever. When you find out the replacement costs of good tubes, this may be an issue for you, as it was for me. That's why I prefer a seperate outboard phono stage. Only use the phono stage when spinning vinyl.

BTW, the BAT's internal phono stage is an inexpensive $500 solid state plug in board. The Aesthetix Janus is a $2000 tube based phono stage. Quite a difference. Atma-sphere also makes a balanced tube preamp with a built in phono stage. Warning though, the Atma-sphere has no remote, if this means anything to you. However, it also has a nice built in tube phono stage (4 tubes line stage, 7 tubes phono).

That's about all I can think of that meet your requirements. Full Function (phono + line stages), tube and balanced outputs. Aesthetix Janus, Atma-sphere MP-3 both have tube phono and line stages, and a BAT is a tube line stage with a SS VK-3 phono board. Oh, and VAC makes several preamps that are tube and have inboard phono stages. They have balanced inputs and outputs, but are not truely balanced designs like those mentioned above. This means that their internal circuitry is single ended, but they have XLR ins/outs and use transformers to change the signal from Bal to SE and then back to BAL at the output.

As you can see, the more features you want, the more you paint yourself into a corner with selection.

John

I would recommend looking at VTL, I've had BAT(VK31SE) and it didn't have the air that the VTL(TL5.5) has.