more reliable amp: tube or solid state class A


i got to reading this thread:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?aamps&1144724173&openfrom&1&4#1

i require no convincing that class A sounds better than AB or D or whatever else, but the efficiency is terrible, with the efficiency losses being reflected as heat.

and heat, as we know, causes thermal breakdown. this is a matter of engineering: the hotter a component runs, the shorter the mean time between failure. simple stuff.

but here's the question: if we took 2 equally hot-running amps, one tube and one SS, over the long haul, what would be more reliable? the tube amp, or the SS one?

i'm thinking the tube amp, solely b/c the tube is the hottest part, and its failure is accomodated for in the design (you simply plug in another tube). a hot running SS amp will eventually burn out resistors / transistors, and joe audiophile will be forced to send that to the factory for replacement.

(i am going to do some HVAC work on my room, and if i can keep in cool in mid July, i will be moving to the winner of this argument)

thx
128x128rhyno
Hi David, Your comment that the 6AS7 is not that linear is not really true. The curve has a lot in common with a 300b and also 2A3s; in that regard the 6AS7G is in good company. On that point the idea that the amp is class A due to the non-linearity of the tube does not hold up. BTW if you study the RCA documents that they released on the tube back in the early 50s, RCA called the tube an audio amplifier *and* VR (Voltage Regulation) tube. FWIW for best VR operation linearity in the pass element (in this case the 6AS7G) tube is important!

While power supply stability is important, I don't think I would say that is why you do class A. IMO, you do it because of the increased linearity of the device. Particularly in push-pull, very low zero feedback distortion levels are possible. Achieving low distortion without feedback allows for lower amounts of higher-ordered harmonics, which are loudness cues for the human ear. Sort of a have your cake and eat it too thing.

Our power supply voltages are not as high as you describe, and it is a fact that the tubes operate class A2, which is something that I am happy to point out should anyone ask; like, right now :)

In A2 there is substantial grid current during part of the waveform, similar to class AB2. Our driver circuit is designed to handle the current, similar to the way Fisher did their class A2 amp back in the 50s. The 6AS7G is remarkably linear in the A2 window, like a lot of power triodes are (we built a 300b OTL once just to see if there was any advantage; the 300b has a similar A2 window BTW).

If the bias and B+ points were a bit different (IOW if the tubes went into cutoff before clipping; right now they cut off only *after* the amp clips), the amp would be class AB2, not A2.

I am if the opinion that class AB is harder to design for and get right since the driver waveforms have to be larger amplitude and the driver power supply has to be more stable. If you are trying to set things up without feedback, which is what I would do, class AB gives you less opportunity for distortion cancellation so you really have to have your ducks in a row to make it work.
Mr Berning and Mr Karsten (two of my favorite designers... FWIW) thanks for getting into the discussion. I have questions about some of the same issues and your input is helpful.

That's one of the (few) good things about AudiogoN, getting first-hand, good information from people who know what they're talking about...

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This is why I come back here so often. Geesh, I'm not even a tube guy, but to get a chance to listen in on a discsussion between Mr. Berning and Mr. Karsten is a real treat indeed! Thank you gentlemen.
And amid the warm glow (shameless tube analogy) creating by listening in on a "conversation" btwn 2 audio greats, lets not lose sight of the most impt point.
In summary, the point of this post is that the buyer should pay less attention to amp names, specs and classifications and listen with an open mind.

There are very well executed designs that utilize tubes and solid state, Class A and AB, OTL, ZOTL and transformer coupled. ANY designer makes a series of decisions and compromises to meet their design objectives. Buy/use what sounds good, is well built, and well supported!! Mssrs. Karsten and Berning make products that meet all three criteria.
Yo Pauly, "strange comment?" As I read through these threads it seems very common for respondents to mention the many components coming and going through their systems. Some Agon members seem to change components as often as they change their socks.
For a while I was one of those. My Meadowlarks have been with me for about three years. They've been with me longer than any other piece. Although I believe the other components currently in play will be here for a couple of years.