Build location for tube integrateds

I just lived with a Stingray for a year, (see the "tube amp for rock" post) I'm no expert....and im still sorting through it....but if I had to put my finger on what I grew to dislike.....it would be power. Prior to I lived with a 200W receiver for many years. I heard/read all the "tube watts vs ss watts" comments...and manufacturers ratings etc... Regardless...the difference in power was very apparent. Qustion is does that matter for your needs? For me and the Stingray....Jazz, blues, chamber music, vocals....very very impressive. Rock/Metal..not so much.

I had a chance to hear the Onix SP3 and Rogue Cronus at the Denver Audio show, though it was brief, I would make simliar comments on my experience that day.

Dont get me wrong, the Stingray produces beautiful sound, but I would describe as more about finesse then punch. Just my two cents, take it for what its worth.

While tube watts do have more apparent ("useable") power than comparable SS because of the clipping distortion characteristics, 40 watts of tube will not be comparable to 200 watts of SS with tough loads and low efficiencies. Although I did hear a tube versus ss demo at the Stereophile show in NYC. The tube amp was 30 watts and the ss was 200 watts. With the speakers being used, it certainly seemed like the SS was clipping at a lower volume than the tube amp. With the Klipsch I suspect 40 tube watts will be more than loud enough and just as loud as you Krell. With the Aerials you might want 60-80 watts, maybe a used VAC Avatar.

I'm going to step out on the ledge here, but that's life...

I don't believe in the "watts is watts" statement. Something else is at work here, which the majority of us (myself included) obviously do not yet understand.

Engineers/scientists love to hit us over the head with the measurements, saying, "Look, the meter says this. Therefore, it must be so..." However, I've seen enough examples of 12 wpc amps outmuscling 100 wpc amps that I now must look over the amp itself, as opposed to looking at the numbers, and then "listen".

Music is a dynamic phenomena, one that when factored into the uniqueness of the power demands of a loudspeaker (like a fingerprint), produce something far more complex than can be wholly represented by putting a 1 KHz test tone through an 8 ohm resistor, and making a value judgement on nothing more than that.

As far as the Manley goes, yes, EL84 amplifiers with its respective tube count tend to produce less real world power. That is true. However, for those who do not need the last word in power, EL84 amps also tend to produce incredible tonality.

In the end, what is and is not important to you must be factored into the equation when you move forward with your purchase. Beyond the lineage requirement for a North American or European tube integrated, I feel the products on the above lists are from good solid companies, meet your price requirements, are built well, and sound good.

Trelja, well said.

I must say, I'm cooling off on the tube idea. I've researched the brands above pretty throughly and the thing that gets me, the measurements, in for example Stereophile. Have you seen those? Especially the 1 KHz square wave. Wow! The output is highly distorted.

It may sound better that way; I'm sure the tube lovers think so. But I'm having a hard time getting over knowing that the input is being distorted that way. Think of it. Everything from the lows to highs are moved all over the place. I still want to try one but I think I'll try maybe the Cary and hook it up to my Klipsch Fortes. Basically I would need to probably spend 5 grand or more to drive the Arials and I'm not convinced it's going to sound that great if I do. I've got to find a tube shop around here and listen to the equipment like I did with the SS stuff.

regards, David