is getting a tube pre a valid option with ss amp?

I am a bit leery about any theoretical attempts to "compensate" for certain qualities or tendencies by finding another component with supposedly opposite qualities. This hardly ever works out as hoped, and for the most part results are unpredictable.

In particular, I have found the behavior of systems with tube linestage/preamps and solid state amps unpredictable and most often unsatisfying. Of course certain specific combinations in certain specific systems will work, but, again, only trial and error will tell (a friend makes such switches all the time for fun, but he has well over a dozen amps and almost as many preamps and a half dozen speaker systems). It is a tempting combination if someone "needs" the power that is most easily obtained from solid state but hopes for "tube magic."

I bet everyone has a little bit different ideas about tube magic, but Mechans description of holographic imaging and tonal beauty and lack of "chiseling" comes close. I would add that this "magic" also involves notes seeming to bloom naturally into space, without an artificial "edge" and for the entire space to be filled with ambient "hall" sounds. To me, that is only really achieved in full measure going all tube, and even then, you get so much more going triode (vs. pentode), and single-ended (provided you have suitable speakers).

I have gotten much better, and more predictable results results with a solid state preamp into tube amps than the reverse. I own, though I no longer use, a Placette Active linestage and a Levinson No. 32 preamp. Both work very well with ANY amp I've tried them with. But, my current tube front end -- Emotive Audio Epifania and Viva Fono, work much better.

There are some operational issues with using a tube linestage and solid state amp if you plan on leaving the amp on all the time (solid state gear takes MUCH longer to fully warm up, so it is often left on all the time). Some tube gear will emit loud noise on turn on, and perhaps, on turn off. This noise may come through even when there is a mute button. That means one cannot turn off the tube linestage without first turning off the amp if one wants to avoid this noise.

I should say that I don't dislike solid state amps; some manage to tame the "chiseling," though often by sounding a touch dull and lifeless when it comes to small dynamic changes. If you have a pair of speakers and a setup that truly NEEDS power (most people overestimate their needs here), it may be the only practical way to go. If that is the case, I would look first to a solid state linestage before trying to find a tube unit.

Larryi,
Intersting thoughts. I have only used one tube preamp, the AES/Cary DJH, and it worked wonderfully with the Pass Labs Aleph 30 and Linn Klout poweramps. These amps where natural and accurate in there own right and adding tubes improved on their good qualities with not draw backs.

The Cary 308CD's variable output directly into the Pass was more intimate and immediate, but less human and 3D sounding than with a tube pre. The Cary cdp/AES pre/Pass amp system is still one off my favorite systems. Although my current tube AES Superamp 2 is quite remarkable.

I didn't have the Cary cdp at the time of the Linn amp or the DJH pre at the time I had a Classe and AES power amps, so these are my limited experiences.

I just added a c2300 Mcintosh tube pre to my Mc MC402 SS power amp. The difference was noticeable. The power amp I thought sounded great - nice and smooth - but because I wanted tone controls, a 12 v trigger, and because the input sensitivity is relatively low on the power amp - I bought a pre amp. It's got that nice tube sound and interestingly as someone stated above I think it did add just a touch of brightness but in a good way. The sound really reminds me of listening to records in the 70s. I just kick back and listen to the music. If I had to say, it sounds better with classical, vocal, and slower music than it does with heavy rock music. Not that rock sounds bad but it's just so enjoyable to listen to classical now. May be my advancing age...

Mjcmt, perhaps the AES/Cary is less touchy than some of the tube linestages I've tried. It is all a matter of actually trying combinations; any other way is a crapshoot.

Wireless200, I am not surprised that your combination works well. There is something to be said about sticking to one brand, the designers certainly would work out the synergy, particularly with a brand like Mcintosh which puts big efforts into maintaining brand loyalty. I am a bit surprised you find the gear better with classical than with rock; I usually find that if something sounds good with classical it is also terrific with rock, but, the reverse is not always true.

Larryi's description of "tube magic" comes about as close as I can imagine in relatively few words. And I agree that tube amp and tube pre-amp combinations present the best version of that sound. But it is worth keeping in mind that various tube equipment manufacturers present equipment with more or less of the "tube magic." As various reviewers have noted in the various hi-fi publications in recent years, in some, perhaps many instances, it's become harder to hear the difference between some tube gear and some solid state gear. Equipment made with the so-called Russian "super tube," the 6H30, for example, tends to have harder transients (to my ear) that "the good old stuff." (I interpret Larryi's use of the term "chiseling" as referring to harder transient attacks--and I think "chiseling" is a great way to describe the aural effect.) Some of us would rather have the more traditional tube sound, which tends to sound as Larryi described it. In my case, I listened to the BAT VK75SE (with the 6H30's) and the standard BAT VK75, and bought the standard version, because it has a bit softer transients (while still sounding quite "real" for my tastes).

And, to Mechans's point, some listeners may "hear" some tube gear as being less active in the highs, maybe even rolled off seeming. I agree with Mechans that this is not necessarily the case, but may be an impression that has to do with the "chiseling" effect Larryi describes.