is getting a tube pre a valid option with ss amp?

Larryi's description of "tube magic" comes about as close as I can imagine in relatively few words. And I agree that tube amp and tube pre-amp combinations present the best version of that sound. But it is worth keeping in mind that various tube equipment manufacturers present equipment with more or less of the "tube magic." As various reviewers have noted in the various hi-fi publications in recent years, in some, perhaps many instances, it's become harder to hear the difference between some tube gear and some solid state gear. Equipment made with the so-called Russian "super tube," the 6H30, for example, tends to have harder transients (to my ear) that "the good old stuff." (I interpret Larryi's use of the term "chiseling" as referring to harder transient attacks--and I think "chiseling" is a great way to describe the aural effect.) Some of us would rather have the more traditional tube sound, which tends to sound as Larryi described it. In my case, I listened to the BAT VK75SE (with the 6H30's) and the standard BAT VK75, and bought the standard version, because it has a bit softer transients (while still sounding quite "real" for my tastes).

And, to Mechans's point, some listeners may "hear" some tube gear as being less active in the highs, maybe even rolled off seeming. I agree with Mechans that this is not necessarily the case, but may be an impression that has to do with the "chiseling" effect Larryi describes.

Eweedhome,

I too am generally not enamored with the 6H30 for the same reasons. This again illustrates a problem with generalizing about the sound of tubes. There are quite a lot of high-powered amps running 6550 pentodes which use a lot of negative feedback that I find far more brittle sounding than most solid state gear.

I think the reason I liked the AES(Cary's budget line)AE-3 DJH preamp so much is that it uses 6SN7 tubes. It sounds "oh-so-good". I like them better than the 12AX7 tubes of my Jolida integrated. That is why I bought the AES Superamp MkII power amp over the AES Sicpac...because the new Superamp uses 6SN7 driver and input tubes (w/EL34 power tubes).
I'm looking for a preamp with 6SN7 tubes instead of the 12AX7/12AT7 tubes many manufactures use. The combo of 6SN7 and EL34 tubes is magical. Could be why Cary uses this combination.

You might not know it now, but you will probably inevitably go all tube. With the issues you have already discovered, how could you not? Especially with vinyl!

Enjoy

Hi Mjcmt,

I don't know if one can reasonably generalize about even a personal preference on type of tube based on a single comparison. First, type of tube chosen would depend not only on the designer's preference for the sound, but also circuit requirements, amount of gain needed, etc. The best tube is one that best fits the requirement of the component. Also, 6SN7s, like all tube types, have quite different sounds, depending on the specific tube chosen.

I have some familiarity with Cary triode amps (not the pentode EL34). They can sound dramatically different, depending on the 6SN7s used in the amp. Quite often, the 6SN7 chosen by the manufacturer is picked with cost and availability as primary concerns, not necessarily "sound" first (this makes sense because the amp has to be reasonably serviceable, and because "sound" is a personal thing, why put a lot of money into an alternative that may or may not be considered better by the buyer?). I've heard great improvement with alternative NOS 6SN7s used in their amps. Have you tried alternatives?

Realistically, one does have to audition stuff, with what comes from the manufacturer for the first "knock out" round of auditions. Unfortunately, that may mean eliminating a particular piece even though a better choice of tubes might have made it a contender.

If I were at a dealership that offered a preamp that uses something other than 6SN7s, I would still at least give it a shot, because, when properly used, the results can be terrific too. My phono stage, which I think is killer good, uses 12AX7s, but, I had to try quite a few different types to get to the ones that work the best, and sonic differences between types were substantial.