Ayre K-1xe vs Audio Research Ref 3

Mtdking,

I disagree with you about the gain that the K-1xe has. I think it has too much gain, if anything. (I am getting ready to open it up and change out the resistors in the line stage actually, in order to decrease its gain, so I can run the volume control at a better level.)

FYI: I like to listen to music at pretty realistic sound levels. (i.e. pretty loud.)
Currently my Resolution Audio Opus 21 cdp is very loud with the volume control at the 9:00-10:00 position. And my analog source (using a Dynavector XV-1S with 0.3 mv output) is running at about the 10:00-11:00 position, again running very loud. The preamp is really supposed to be used at about the 12:00-3:00 position, in order to have the best flexibility in using the volume control. (Note: Unity gain is at about the 2:30 position).
(FYI, the volume control uses 1 db steps above the 9:00 position, but 2 db steps, or more, below it, if memory serves. This is why I want to decrease the gain. And luckily, the Ayre is flexible enough to allow me to do this by simply changing a couple of resistors.)

And, since I was curious, I looked at both the Ayre and the Audio Research websites.

The K-1xe preamp supplies 16 db of gain using the balanced outputs and 10 db of gain using the single ended outputs.

The Ref. 3 preamp supplies 11.6 db of gain using the balanced outputs and 5.6 db of gain using the single ended outputs.

So Mtdking, I imagine that you, your dealer, (or a previous owner, if you bought the K-1xe used), had adjusted the resistors in the line stage so as to reduce the gain, which is why you thought it had less gain than the Ref. 3, when in fact it actually has 4.4 db more.

My two cents worth.

I appreciate all the responses. I actually have an Audio Research Ref 3 now running with an Ayre V-5xe amp and while I love the sound of the Ref 3, I am a bit annoyed by having to replace tubes, etc. I am wondering if I would be better off upgrading to an Ayre K-1xe preamp and with the money I save upgrading my amp to a V-1xe. From the responses, it sounds like I would get a lot more bang for my buck that way.

So are you guys saying that you need to run the K1x from the balanced inputs as well to get the most out of it?

I am running mine balanced to the amps (Parasound JC-1s)but my DAC and phono are both single ended. Is this such a problem that I am missing something?

I've never tried the Ref 3, but the K1x was probably the most significant upgrade I've ever done to my system. One significant advantage of the K1x over the Ref 3 not mentioned is that you don't have to bother with turning the thing on and off everytime you use it. Most tube pre amps I've used take up to a minute to fully wake up and then you have to worry about shutting it off when you are done. If you are already using a solid state amp and don't have any tubes to bother with I say why bother. The K1x sounds so good you won't care.

Also I owned the V-5xe amp, and while I thought it was pretty good I would say it wasn't in the same league as the K1x is. It didn't float my boat at all. I think you are wise to consider an upgrade there as well.

Kurt_tank,

The REF 3 can output 30 volts on it's balanced output at 600 Ohms.

The K1XE Outputs 10 Volts on it's balanced output at 600 ohms which 600 ohms on a solid state preamp is very high.

Gain specs mean nothing look at output voltage. Gain is relative to your input. SO if I had a CD Player with a output of 10 Volts how can the K1XE have 10 DB of gain? The K1 would have 0 DB of gain right? Output voltage is the only way to gauge true gain.

Ayre's CD Players have a high output voltage so not much is needed for gain. ARC Ref CD7 is even higher. I'm not saying that is a bad thing at all but If you put a K1 on a MAC amp it will drive it unless you have a source that has a ton of output voltage. Trust me I tried.

To be honest I own a VTL 7.5 so I have nothing to gain here. Just trying to help a guy out. Preamp and amp matching is very important.

Having used a number of preamps, including the excellent VTL 6.5, Ayre K5 and now the KX-R...and having tried several ARC units I suspect that once you select one or the other that your gain can be adjusted to suit....my personal preference is the KX-R first, then the VTL 6.5 and then distantly the K5...I was using the V5 amp and now the MX-R...select something that pleases you. Personally if I were to select and remain with a tube unit it would be VTL...but I have always been concerned about aging tubes...because that can be a very sublte issue