Setup vs. Amp/Preamp choice?


Which do you value more?

I've read endless questions re: which amp, preamp,or integrated is best with which speakers. I believe most of that discussion is nonsense for most equipment. True, there are certain electrical synergies between amps and speakers that are important, and preamps certainly sound different. But the absolutely critical factors in determining what a system will sound like are: 1. your own likes and dislikes and 2. setup. I have heard great gear sound terrible and average gear sound fantastic - it really depends on how things were set up in a particular listening room. I've heard people describe a particular integrated amp as having as small soundstage - In my room and with my speakers, the soundstage was vast. I've heard people describe the sound of certain gear as shrill or unlistenable - Well perhaps it is in their setup, but what does that tell me about how it will sound in my room?

Many of you who ask for advice about gear place inordinate value on subjective opinions of individuals with varying tastes, hearing ability, prejudices, rooms and setups. That is completely absurd: The only way to judge how a piece of equipment will sound is to test it in your room after proper setup. And small changes in speaker placement can make a huge difference. So stop running around like a bunch of maniacs who have to switch equipment every few months in search of nirvana, and concentrate on setting up your system properly. That's where the greatest reward is (for everyone except dealers).

Do you agree?
msratty
No. Certain amp/pre-amp combo's are completely inadequate for the speaker systems that they are paired with, yet, when accompaning the right equipment will excel. Try a single ended 300b amp, or a tube amp with modest power and mate either with a pair of Martin Logans and you will immediately see what I mean. No amount of room placement will correct that. Passive pre-amps may simply not provide the gain that is required in a particular system. High "spec" powered systems my provide lots of head room, but sound shrill, brittle, and downright nasty, exacerbated by a pair of highly efficient speakers, and again, I don't care how much time you take to set that up. On the other hand, you are correct when you state that system set up is important, and it does dissappoint me to see some people spend 20-40,000 dollars on equipment, only to set it up so badly that they simply should have bought a Bose system and been happy. (Not to knock Bose, but I hope you catch my drift). If your not going to invest the time to set a system up properly, you really might as well purchase something more in accord with what one really needs in that situation: something nice that will provide "background music".
Mcfarland, if you read my post carefully, you'll see that I said that my comments were true for most systems. Most amps will work fine with most speakers. There are combinations that truly excel, but for most people who have systems in the $5k - $15k range, I believe that set up is all important and it's been my experience that the vast majority of those systems are not properly set up.
Setup: IF you include the room. Not only 'setup' of where/ how the equipment, but any room 'tuning' needed.

I'd rather have an OK system in a great space than a great system in some echo chamber....
Congrats Msratty...loving music and loving equipment have absolutely nothing to do with one another.
Jay,
True, so then why the heck are the vast majority of questions dealing with 'what goes with what'?
Isn't incompatible gear in the minority? Stuff like very bad speaker loads, or speakers requiring a current source amp.
Or gross impedance mismatches between amp/pre, for example?
I think Msratty agrees with you, too, but is also concerned that so many questions simply have little or nothing to do with music.