What is wrong with negative feedback?

If you get the original Vertigo press there is a lot of bass and bass impact! If you try to play that anywhere near 105 or 110 db, which is justified by the material, most systems just can't do it- too much energy required. The trick it to be able to play it that loud without it **sounding** loud, IOW the only sense of volume should come from the LP itself, not the system.

Hi Atmasphere, Thanks for the advice. I have several "system busters" Lps. Certainly Daphos is high on the list along with Carmen suite on RCA and a few others that have very big dynamics.

I am curious as to your system, what does it consist of? There must be some nice OTL amps, but what else do you use? I dont believe I have ever saw references to your system speakers etc. Could you post a few pictures of your system here on the 'Gon. Although I would expect that it is constantly changing. Is this system in your house or at work?

Thanks,
Bob

Hi Bob, the system I have at home uses a pair of Classic Audio Reproduction T-3s with dual 15" woofers and field coil drivers in the midrange and tweeters. They are about 97 db.

When we first got them I noticed that phenomena of loudness cues: we were playing them a lot louder than the previous speakers, which were 89 db. Now of course you can imagine that one might do that with a more efficient speaker because it is possible, but really the limiting factor with the less efficient speakers was that the loudness cues made it uncomfortable to turn it up the volume any higher. The CALs in the system allowed the amps to make less power/less loudness cues so we were playing them louder very naturally and effortlessly.

"Now of course you can imagine that one might do that with a more efficient speaker because it is possible, but really the limiting factor with the less efficient speakers was that the loudness cues made it uncomfortable to turn it up the volume any higher."

Hmm, I'm under the impression amp clipping generally becomes more of an issue at higher volumes with less efficient speakers?

I'm assuming that you run these with one of your tube amps, which would minimize loudness cues when distorting? All amps distort more at higher levels, correct? The question is in what way and to what extent the distortion is audible. For a given amp, this would occur sooner at lower volume with a less efficient speaker, all other factors aside, right?

Right. We were careful to not allow the amplifiers to clip during these tests. However it really did not matter which amp we used or in what combination. The higher efficiency of the speakers meant that amps were not working as hard and so were more relaxed.

That was 12 years ago. We've made good progress reducing distortion since then, so the amps have continued to get more relaxed.