solid state vs tubes

the bottom line for me is that the last few hi fi shows I went to I never really liked any room that was powered with solid state amplifiers.

I would deliberatly NOT find out what was being used before listening but when I left the room I would ask - so as not to bias my opinion.

the solid state stuff sounds too flat and lifeless, the flat 2D images are stuck around the speakers, in comparison tubes have a big image and soundspace that seems full of life.

my opinion and ears...

I have to agree with Phaelon and Tvad that to meet what I find to be tube virtues, it is essential that they be in the amp, upstream tubes with SS amps is simply not the same thing, that took a long time to figure out, especially given what seems to a fairly long run recomendation of combing tubes in the pre with SS amp - a best of both worlds argument - that simply never worked that why for me. Which is not to say which is better, that might very well be a matter that can only be decided by personal preference after listening for yourself, but IF you want what is best from "tubes", I think there is no way around them being in your amps.

I've heard both very good tube systems and very good SS systems sound great. They're just coming to grips with the solution from two different angles. The better ones do tend to sound the same despite their different starting points.

Its only our limited exposure to all the implementations out there that gives rise to this debate.

I second that Musicman and blindjim said it best.

"Nothing ever gets resolved in these discussions, and the circularity of the discussion continues ad infinitum."

You're right Tvad, but what I have difficulty understanding is why you're right. Objective fact: Tubes are not solid state and vice verse. They are different and they sound different.

This whole thing brings diet cola to mind. In the beginning, the whole thing with diet was about approximating the taste of the original cola with sugar. Ad campaigns frequently claimed that the results of taste tests concluded that a new version of diet was indistinguishable from the original. But a funny thing happened over time, diet cola began to stand on it's own two feet and many people chose to prefer it to the original. Diet advocates didn't feel that they had to justify their choice by saying that diet tastes like the original cola, they just said they preferred it. Now, if you walk down the pop isle you'll notice each major brand has several varieties of cola - different strokes for different folks. What I never hear in any lunchroom is an argument over which cola tastes better or that a certain diet tastes like the original. It doesn't. Who cares. Solid state isn't tubes and therefore doesn't sound like tubes. Choose the one you like and be happy. What's there to argue about?