$$$Sensitive Speakers with $$Amps?


I've read a recent thread, and a Six Moons review for recommending certain amps who's price tag falls short of the subject loudspeakers. For example, Red Wine Audio 15 with Rethm Maarga speakers.

My area of focus is with sensitive speakers being driven by low-watt amps. Are there really super values out there for these type of amplifiers, or do the typical spending rules apply?
kennythekey
Charles1dad, I think I did that last post pretty poorly! I meant to confirm most of Joe's comments. I was editing my post and deleted that part, then forgot about it. What I was commenting on really only applied to the M-60s he is using, which are pretty old (if I recall right his set was built about 1997).

I do tend to play things louder than most audiophiles do though, if my experience at shows means anything. Its not uncommon at home to listen at 105db or more (my system is very relaxed at those volumes); my 300b amp won't let that happen, although it sounds great at lower volumes.
Hi Atmasphere,
Wow ,you do listen at higher sound levels then most I`d imagine.Just purely out of curiosity do you have concerns about potential hearing loss at those listening levels?Last night I attended a jazz show featuring a quartet at our local Steinway Piano Gallery and took my extech sound meter along. This group consisted of an alto sax,piano,acoustic bass and drum kit. I was about30- 35 feet from the stage and sound levels C weighted were in the mid 80s db range with occasional drums peak to 95-97db. That level was 'plenty' loud enough yet very comfortable(just beautiful tone and music) no need to play any louder IMO(you could hear everthing!). Those instruments be could played at a much louder level(but why?) 105 db sure is a loud level, but as is always the case, to each their own.
Regards,
Kennythekey, in what part of the country are you located?

Since you have the motivation to visit Jeff Catalano, I fully encourage you to do so. You'll have an absolute blast! Jeff's a great guy, representing some of the more interesting yet least encountered equipment. His place, literally in the shadow of the Brooklyn Bridge, is something of a historical landmark, filled with more records than you'll believe.

Though difficult for me to explain in objective terms, something certainly exists with both backloaded horns and transmission line bass alignments in that they behave in a more complex pattern in terms of the load they present to a partnering amplifier than do sealed, ported, and front loaded horn loudspeakers; all those operating in a far more simple way. Then again, it should appear logical that what happens after the electrical impulse excites a driver's voice coil will be different as the driver's backwave has to travel such an incredibly far distance in comparison. The simple, electrical, numbers living on a stat sheet fail to capture this phenomenon. At any rate, let us understand that how the amplifier interfaces with the loudspeaker will determine how effectively, or not, that air mass propels down the labyrinth.

As Bud Fried stressed, a backloaded horn and a true transmission line are the exact opposite of one another. In simple terms, as the name implies, the area of the horn increases exponentially in size as we traverse it, whereas the transmission line decreases exponentially.

My experience shows that some amplifier topologies work better with some loudspeaker alignments than others. Representing a company producing a wide range of amplifiers allowed me to play in a way where differences in parts and the designer's approach canceled out. By that I mean, the amplifiers used parts from the same manufacturer and type, and the amplifier circuitry would be shared across differing products. Obviously, when comparing a push-pull pentode design to an SET, you would find the expected disparities. However, when comparing a 211 and 845 SET or 2A3 and 300B PSE or push-pull, we were dealing with almost identical product.

What initially surprised me was that the company's very powerful 78 wpc push-pull triode/pentode switchable amplifiers paled in comparison to the ability to put power into a backloaded horn next to their modestly powered 15 wpc 211 and 28 wpc SET. The 300B 8 wpc SET and 16 wpc PSE wound up closer to the 211. Now, who would ever believe that an SET could outmuscle a push-pull amp in a drag race? Yet, across the speakers of three different companies, the trend held up. Strange to see, but it actually came across as if the PP amps felt like a runner or bicyclist struggling for air when climbing a steep hill. These amps just could not get over the hump. This demonstrated there really is something to the SET phenomenon that those who denigrate their low power on paper have not yet realized. In somewhat of an analogy between tube and solid state, I believe the SET kind of power is actually different in a way we have thus far failed to be able to measure.

The transmission lines displayed conventional (and expected) performance.

Again, the OTL amplifiers we used (not only Atma Sphere - note: the A/S were 2004 and 2008 vintage) behaved the way I described in an earlier post. One big surprise that I didn't mention, even with the nominal 4 (dipping to 2.3) ohm load of one of the true TLs, the OTL amplifiers, even the 30 wpc Atma Sphere S30, outshined more powerful transformer coupled tube amps in virtually every case. Of course, just like people I know who power their B&W and older Wilson (newer are much better) speakers with OTL amplification, just because it's done, doesn't mean it's good.

In the end, as the saying goes, it's horses for courses...
Trelja,

Its not clear to me what is the criteria by which you assess the SET versus push pull with the back-loaded horns.

At what volumes are you comparing? Are you saying the SETs go both louder and clearer than the push-pulls? How about at lower volumes?

How many combos of sets and push pull amps with back-loaded horns have you tested and observed this behavior with? Same results with each?

Thanks.
The best amplifier I have ever owned (and not the most expensive) is a pair of Audio Note Kits Interstage Monoblocks running 300b's.

Completely, and absolutely silent on my 100+ db effecient horns.

The interstage transformer relaces the more common coupling capacitor that tends to color the sound and degrade the resolution. Still under 5k built by a professional, about the best deal out there in my opinion.