Replacement for Maggie's?

Thanks for the ideas guys, it sounds like I really need to take a road trip to listen to some different gear. I have thought about adding subs but felt it smeard the sound a little. Not sure if that's the right term, but it didn't sound as good in the mids with a sub. If I kept the 1.6's I have also thought about adding 2 rythmik subs but once again worry that it will mess with the already pretty good sound.

Harri, while I know people have had good results with forex the Rel subs, you might want to consider Magnepan's DWM woofer. It won't smear the sound like a dynamic sub because it's also a planar, and it's quite small. Magnepan showed it at CES with a couple of 3.7's and it got raves. Their new ad will give you an idea of how small it is, plus the kind of press its been getting:

http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/vt.mpl?f=mug&m=196349

Also, since it's small and easily shipped, they have a 30 day home trial so you can see if it works for you.

If you then want to extend the bass down to 20 hz, you can add dynamic subs but they will only be playing in the bottom octave so they're less likely to smear the midrange.

Harri, two considerations:

First, if keeping your 1.6s is an option with peace in your household, look into Josh's advice. Apparently Wendell has suggested trying one or two DWMs to see what works in individual rooms.

Second, apparently a new MMG is being introduced this winter. That would be a smaller option while retaining the Maggie sound. And of course the addition of one or two DMWs to that might provide what keeps everybody happy. ;^)

If you go with subs, you need at least two and preferably more to approach the in-room bass smoothness of the Maggies. Let me explain:

James M. Kates authored a study published in the Journal of the Audio Engineering Society that documented the superior in-room bass smoothness of a fullrange dipole loudspeaker, in comparison with a monopole speaker.

Todd Welti and Earl Geddes (who was my teacher) have established the superior in-room smoothness of multisub systems using three or four thoughtfully placed subs. Basically, multiple distributed bass sources result in significantly smoother in-room bass because their individual dissimilar in-room peak-and-dip patterns average out. This is not entirely unlike the case of having two dipole speakers, wherein each dipole can be modelled as two monopoles in opposite polarity separated by a path length. Two dipoles = four monopoles (two in reverse polarity); four subs = four monopoles (preferably spread apart).

In-room bass smoothness increases proportionally with the number of distributed bass sources. Thus two subs are twice as smooth as one. And four subs are twice as smooth as two. And two dipoles (approximately equivalent to four monopoles, distributed in polarity rather than in location) are about four times as smooth as one monopole sub. That's why most people who try a single sub with Maggies give up on it, and many if not most people who try two subs stick with them (I'm leaving out some details for the sake of simplicity).

In my experience four distributed subs do a very good job of matching the in-room bass smoothness of a pair of dipoles. Of course WAF is not high with a multisub system, so this approach may not be practical in this case, but it's good to be aware of the technique.

Remember, the purpose of going with multiple subs is quality, not quantity. Not only is the bass smoother, it is also more uniform throughout the room, which is nice for anyone not in the sweet spot. Smooth bass = subjectively fast, pitch-correct bass; not-smooth bass = boomy or one-note bass, as the peak or peaks stick out like sore thumbs, unless we turn the subs down until the peaks are subjecively unobtrusive, but now the rest of the bass spectrum is not fully represented. So smooth bass tends to be "fuller" bass because the level of the subs is not dictated by the sore-thumb peaks.

Duke
dealer/manufacturer

This attitude of categorically dismissing subwoofers for fear of integration problems is a bit dated. Sure, it can be a hassle to integrate one or more subs with a system, but it can also be rewarding well beyond the financial investment.

First, you have to pick the right subwoofers. Many of the newest ones are designed to blend and provide foundation for music, not for boom & sizzle of film soundtracks. Subwoofers from JL, Velodyne (esp. the DD and DD+ series), B&W, NHT, and several others are designed with very fast transient response and a wide, linear bandwidth to make blending easier. Many of them have more sophisticated controls to help as well. For example, my Mirage MM8 subs have 0-360 deg. phase control, volume control, and continuously variable crossover frequencies ranging from 50-280 Hz. Others have all that plus room correction and equalization.

Furthermore, a couple of low-cost tools can help. You can get an SPL meter from Radio Shack for $20-30 and the Stereophile test & demo CD for very little. Between the two you can adjust the sub(s) to give you linear bass extension to the limits of the subs themselves.

In my experience, the music-oriented subs have sealed cabinets, some with passive radiators, some without. They tend to have a flat response and a gentle rolloff, making them easier to integrate. Fast transient response is essential as well. If you can afford JL Audio, you will have little problem blending. I heard a pair of their Fathom F212s with a pair of Magnepan 20.1s and the blending was totally seamless. If you could swing a pair of F110s with your current Maggie 1.6s or trade up to 1.7s, you would have a kicking system.

You could also trade up to Mag 1.7s and add some quality but lower cost musical subs, such as a pair of Martin-Logan Dynamo 700s or 1000s, or the NHT B10d or B12d. The B10d is a 12.6" cube and you could tuck one alongside each of your Maggie panels without intruding on the room too much.

Here's another approach: Good minimonitors can disappear and throw a great 3D soundstage, they're small, transparent, and many are very attractive and therefore WAF-friendly. Augmented with one or more subs they can make for a very compelling speaker system. One such I heard a year ago is the B&W PM1 stand-mounted speakers combined with B&W's superb PV1D subwoofer. The speakers, factory stands, and powered sub come right in at your $5K limit.

This is a kick-ass system that sounds like a much more expensive setup, with speed, transparency, musical involvement, dynamics, frequency extension, etc. I often found one or another thing lacking with many B&Ws, usually that elusive sense of musical and emotional involvement, but that's not a problem with these. They're some of the most involving speakers I've heard at any price. I can't imagine that your spouse wouldn't fall in love with them visually, and might even provide the catalyst to share your hobby more.