Why will no other turntable beat the EMT 927?

Dear Bydlo: +++++ " I think just one plain number as W&F tells you as much
about a TT as a shoe size about a girl. " ++++++

I agree and that's not what I posted here, measurements ( today ) can't tell thw whole " history " but we can't diminished.

I prefer a mproduct hat sounds good and measured good that one that ( everything the same ) measured in poor way because goes against MUSIC and against my targets.

Could make sense to you that a TT designer design the item with out measure it, at least for curiosity?

Example: if I'm designing a TT at least I want that spins at 33 1/3 rpm/45rpm not at 36-45.8 rpm and like this other parameters independent of all the whole TT design.

We can't live with out measures, that girl you taloked about gives you itz size/measure shoes and how old are you? or what time is it? or the size of your chirt? or how many hours to fly to Hong Kong?

Accuracy, neutrality and measurements are not the " eveil " no one wants to talk, it is part of our life in any single stage of it and in audio is not the exception: like it or not.

Please, any one of you tell me why you don't want to know about accuracy or measurements on audio items because designers must do it.

Mosin here, talked about: that he alredy gone to the lmit of the idler technology about speed stability.

It makes no sense to me try to deny all those subjects that ar critical an important part on each one of us audio systems.

Regrads and enjoy the music,
R.

Dear Dkarmeli: You don't need to throw all your records, why? that's not the subject and the irony in your statement neither.

Yes, the only fact you have is subjective: " I like it ", nothing wrong with that. My subject goes beyond it and involve alot more that only that. I'm not biased in the same way you are, my take in my home audio system is to enjoy in all its splendor the MUSIC that comes in the LP grooves adding and losting the less.
To achieve that target I need accuracy, neutrality and very very low distortions ( any kind. ) at each audio link in my system. I'm trying to be nearest to the limits/boundaries of LP experience, be nearest to " perfection " because first than all I'm a music lover and not a harware lover that's only a tool to enjoy the software named MUSIC.

Dkarmeli, the difference between each one of us reside in what kind of distortions we like. Btw, I don't like any kind of added distortion/colorations in my system, I already posted: is more than enough all distortions/colorations that already comes in the LPs to not take care in deep where the cartridge signal must pass and try to avoid signal degradation.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul, I agree with you about the importance of measurements and I'm sure that tt designers use them to develop their products. One well known and enthusiastic member of these forums even advocates auditioning turntables with a Sutherland Timeline strobe in pocket. That way one will know very quickly if a turntable at a dealership (or friend's house) meets one of the essential targets of all turntables.

I also think your description of the analysis of audio components as being both objective and subjective is right on. But I see nothing wrong with someone thinking "I like it". This sounds subjective, but it may also be supported by the notions of accuracy and neutrality. Speaking only for myself, "I like it" when my system improves with changes and sounds more and more like the real thing. Low distortion and speed accuracy certainly contribute to it sounding natural.

Has anyone tested the EMT 927 with a Timeline?

Thuchan,

Here is no place to promote my turntable, but I will say that it is not a Lenco. That really isn't a fair comparison because it is an entirely different idler, like the EMT 927 is an entirely different idler. If you are coming to RMAF, we can continue down this path. I would like that.

Peterayer,

In reference to the Sutherland Timeline as a tool for judging turntables, I would be remiss if I didn't remind everyone that an uneven speed is far more critical than one that is a bit off. Recently, a group of us checked a stellar sounding vintage turntable that did not spin exactly to the Timeline standard. In fact, it appeared to be significantly faster. After checking it again with Fieckert's software, it was determined that it was spinning at 33.45 RPM, but it was perfectly consistent. The slight increase in speed is most likely due to a replacement belt that is probably the wrong thickness. Compare that turntable with a turntable that spins 33.34 almost all the time, but with noticeable moments of change that cannot be attributed to a parts replacement. Which would you pick? My point is that the tool should be used carefully, so as to not draw a wrong conclusion.

Mosin, That is a good point about accurate speed versus constant speed. And by doing this check on a stellar vintage turntable, you seem to support Raul's point that analysis should be both objective and subjective. But how do you know from using the Timeline that it is accurate speed or constant speed? Say the turntable speeds up to 33.45 and then slows down to 33.44 at precisely the same point during each revolution. If this is not detected by the strobe sequence of the Timeline, then it would appear to be a slightly fast rotation, but constant speed, while in fact it is not constant because it speeds up and slows down within the period of the strobe. One can imagine all kinds of variations to this.

The point I was trying to make is that to some degree, it is important to measure these things with tools. It does not tell the whole story, but it helps. I think this is what Raul means by analysis being both objective and subjective. I think this is the point that he is also trying to make, but for some reason he continues to be criticized.