progress?

" I think it is all about set-up, cartridge/tonearm matching and proper isolation."

Having not tested out or compared the modern tables to the older in a test like this, I also suspect the overall setup is the key to success in many cases. This and similar records were the ultimate test for table tracking back then. I was in retail audio sales back then and had the opportunity to set up and use many tables and carts back then and the setup made all the difference as I recall. Only a small % of setups/combos seemed up to the task even back then as I recall. Also I seem to recall high mass carts in lower mass tonearms popular with many Japanese and European tables at the time having the least success due largely to extreme inertial effects. Those records served too purposes: 1 ) demonstrate the dynamics possible with digital recording technology of the day and 2) demonstrate the shortcomings of most record players/turntables of the day with such recordings as they failed to track the records adequately in most cases. Digital had its own technical issues and challenges to conquer over the years, but the laws of physics relating to mass and inertia was not one of them luckily.

Your moniker tells me all a I need to know.

I think Al's photo tells us all we need to know. Nice find, Al.

Dear Boofer: +++++ " Except for the cannons, all mentioned TT's sound just fine, and if sound is what it's all about, well and good; but I think trackability should also be a concern, especially if today'sprices are considered.... " +++++

IMHO perhaps the main or more important cartridge characteristic/target is: the cartridge traking abilities.

Everything the same the best cartridge tracker ( between cartridge comparisons. ) is the best performer too.

Better cartridge tracking abilities means ( between other things ) LOWER DISTORTIONS: distortions that many of us can hear and discern about.

The main cartridge function/target is to follow the recorded grooves staying in touch with always.
Any stylus microscopic " jump " when the stylus is riding the grooves means added distortions and we don't want added distortions in our audio system.

In any decent TT/tonearm/set up the main responsability to shows great or poor tracking abilities fall in the cartridge it self. We don't have to have an stellar tonearm or TT for the cartridge can shows its tracking habilities. I made it " thousands " of test for tracking habilities with real music/recordings with " hundreds of vintage and today MM/MI/LOMC/HOMC cartridges.

One of the recordings I used is that Telarc 1812 Overture ( that IMHO is a great recording and not only because the cannons. ) and because the way ( over the recording. ) the cartridge trfacked I know how that cartridge performs against other cartridges and the differences I have to expect.

Only a few of the today cartridges can track the 16 cannon shots ( one of them is the Denon top of the line S1. ), other only part of those shots and depending which shots can track that's the way that cartridge performs with " normal " LPs.

Now, that is not only which cartridge can pass the 16 cannons shots but on each cannon shot: how it performs/sound? and ( again ) depending on the cartridge kind of sound/reproduction of each one shot will be its overall quality performance level.

Those people that still think that because no other LP is so demanding it's no important that his cartridge can't pass the test but the other LPs: wrong way wrong, it's important because the cartridges that can always performs in any other LP with lower lower distortions.

Of course that if the distoriton levels o what you are hearing is not important: well, is not important.

Dougdeacon, the recording can't damage your precious cartridge but it's a good test/experience to know which distortion levels you have at the source.

Several today and other vintage LOMC cartridges more than riding the LPs normal grooves are jumping on it! . This is terrible, not the Telarc 1812 Overture.

Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

Stealing from Pauln, AK Member who wrote the following which nicely allows one to envision the factors at play in getting a cartridge/stylus to track a record properly:


"Compliance is a measure of how hard the groove wall has to press on the stylus tip to get it to move.

Since the pressure and movement are changing through time, the usual attributes that come into play with accelerations apply.

In an automobile suspension, all the moving parts are classified as belonging to one of parts of the system - the sprung weight, and the un-sprung weight. In the case of a car, the un-sprung weight is the car itself, the suspension mounting, and the parts of the suspension that "don't move". The sprung weight included the wheel and hub, maybe part of the axle, etc. (the parts that do move).

It get a little tricky when considering the shocks, springs, and sometimes the axle. These things "move", but they are typically held fast at the un-sprung end. What happens is that the wheel itself is considered fully sprung, but the shock or spring is considered partially sprung (math is used to figure the equivalent sprung mass of the partially sprung components).

Anyway, on the turntable, the stylus, cantilever, and a portion of the suspension mounting, (and the coil if MC, or the magnet if MM, or the iron if MI) is the sprung weight; and the tonearm, balance weight, and cartridge mounting is the un-sprung weight.

(And if your turntable uses a suspension subsystem, there is a similar relationship between the tonearm/platter system (sprung) and the chassis (un-sprung).

Because of the geometry of the sprung weight (a tip at the end of a rod with the rod mounted at the other end with something connected to it - a coil, magnet, or iron), the usual way this is all described is effective tip mass. Which is to say, all the linkages and differential momentum and inertia and damping of the cantilever mounting is all rolled into one figure that describes how the groove wall would receive and respond to an equivalent isolated little mass in contact with the walls. The calculation reveals how much the groove wall "thinks" the tip weighs by how hard or easy it is to push and accelerate the tip.

But since the tip in the real world is connected to the rest of the system, the compliance needs to match the physical characteristics of the arm, the mounting, etc. because of the accelerations and inertia.

Sometimes it helps to visualize the extreme cases using a thought experiment.

Case 1 - Low compliance and light arm
Here the tip may be heavy and the cantilever very heavy and the mounting very tight and stiff. Let the arm be very light (like a soda straw). When the groove presses the tip, the tip resists deflecting in relation to the arm strongly and the whole arm moves. Now the whole geometry is wrong because instead of just wiggling the cantilever the whole arm is trying to wiggle and the effects of its geometry and mounting to the table come into effect.

Case 2 - High compliance and heavy arm
Let's say the arm is made of granite and weighs about ten pounds, but it is balanced just right and is floating on air bearings. What happens when the groove wall presses the tip sideways? The tip moves, but the arm does not. What happens when the groove presses the tip up? It moved up, but the arm does not. What happens after a few seconds of tracking? The tip gets bent to the side as the groove moves inward to the center of the record. The arm does not move. The tip finally mistracks and hops over the groove into the next groove and repeats this indefinitely. The compliance is too great for the deflected tip to move the arm. If the tip had a few minutes to apply its deflection continuously to the arm, you might see the arm begin to move, but that's too late, and it would take the same amount of time deflecting the other way just to get it to stop."