Beating the RVG Horse

Grimace, I'm with you. I research and try to do my due diligence not to purchase any more RVG remasters. It is amazing to me how much more presence, fullness and bass some cd's can add or take away from system performance. When I land a sonically-well extended Jazz cd , I say "yeah" and then I research the person doing the remastering and the label. I start looking for more of the classics remasterd by that individual. Recently a good sounding Jazz cd I purchased is "Tetragon" by Joe Henderson remastered by Phil de Lancie on the Fantasy label. Compared to my Blue note RVG remsaster of Joe Henderson "Page One," "Tetragon" has much more presence, fulness bass extension etc. I really dislike thin sound. The paricular software I use truly makes a big difference in my system performance. At the reverse, a Kenny Dorham Cd "Quiet Kenny" that I purchased in error(missed the RVG remaster label), lacks mid and low end weight-sounds rather thin on my system. I said before, for a fan of true classic jazz, hard bop etc. some of the greatest recordings of all time are part of the Blue note RVG series. It's unavoidable. I have quite a few of these recordings. I try to listen and just enjoy the artistry and forget about bass and mids weight. And for vinyl guys who would suggest I go vinyl- going vinyl is impossible for me right now. I don't have room for a turntable in my setup. In the future maybe.

Foster,

The other thing about the vinyl guys is that if they own the originals - and a lot of them claim to - they may be forgeting how rare and expensive all that stuff is. It would be nice, but it's not always as easily done as said.

I have 'Quiet Kenny' too, but mine is the 24-bit re-master, not the RVG re-master. The mid/bass isn't awful, but it isn't a very good recording in general.

Edle- the original post is about the RGV remasters done in the last few years specifically, not the original recordings or LPs or previous CD issues. Many of the original and reissue LPs are sonically fantastic.

Zaik- Like the original poster, I have found the RGV reissues to sound "thin and tinny" and much less smooth than the 1980s CD issues. I wonder if we are talking about different things? Maybe you are comparing to some different CD versions?

On recordings I really like musically but dislike sonically because they sound anemic and thin, I use a digital EQ on my computer to re-master the recording myself and bring up the bass range a little bit. It works pretty well.

DM: When I say smooth, I'm talking specifically about texture. Most of the 80's BN CDs I've got sound more rough and brash compared with various later reissues, RVGs included. To me the older disks sound more 'digital' for lack of a better term. This is independent of overall tonal balance. Occasionally this quality can actually lend the material an excitingly up-front presence in a way, but I don't think it's as accurate and usually it sounds worse. But for me this is the only *consistent* difference I notice among BN CD reissues. Questions of tonal balance seem too variable to me for broad generalization.

OK, I just went downstairs and grabbed a bunch of RVG CDs and sampled each for about a minute in succession. Sound quality is, as suspected, all over the map. I think this must have mostly to do with the original recordings as opposed to the remasterings, the differences are too great, and not just of tonal balance. If I break them down into three groups from least distinguished sound to best (bearing in mind that this ranking is only a relative one among just this group of disks, and not in ultimate terms compared to all other disks), this is what I've got:

Group 1 (best overall):

Hank Mobley -- Soul Station
Wayne Shorter -- Juju

Of these, "Soul Station" is clearly the best sounding disk of the whole bunch (even though its top treble is probably a tad overprominent), but again I think this is mostly a testimony to the original recording.

Group 2 (middling):

Lee Morgan -- Tomcat
Lee Morgan -- Leeway
Hank Mobley -- Workout
Art Blakey -- Indestructible
Art Blakey -- Buhaina's Delight
Horace Silver -- Blowin' The Blues Away

Of these, "Tomcat" is the best, but again I think this is because of the original recording sound. A top end that's a little tizzy and bass that's a little light at the bottom keeps it out of the top catagory. Of all the titles listed in all catagories however, only the last two of this catagory, "Buhaina's Delight" and "Blowin' The Blues Away" have what I would call a bothersomely overcooked top end, and this I do suspect is attributable to the mastering. However, this tonal imbalance isn't enough in my mind to place them in the last group, where the original recorded sound is noticeably less natural.

Group 3 (distinctly less enjoyable sound):

Horace Silver -- Silver's Serenade
Lee Morgan -- The Sixth Sense
Joe Henderson -- In 'N Out

I think the fact that this group doesn't sound as good as the other two can't be taken as a generalization about the mastering, since they each sound quite a bit different from one another, with different kinds of flaws displayed (the recording dates range from '63 to '68). None of these has a particularly crispy treble, though none has a plush bass either.

Of all the titles listed, the only one I can specifically recall comparing the pre-RVG issue with the RVG issue is the Henderson disk, and the earlier issue conformed to the pattern I noted in my last post and was inferior overall. I don't think I've had the opportunity to compare any of the others to any alternate reissues, either CD or vinyl, or to vinyl originals.

Other than that, we need to remember that all these disks *are* Blue Notes, which usually means they're never going to sound like a really suave Columbia, Impulse! or RCA after all. FWIW comparing apples to oranges (not only are the formats and playback gear not the same, but as I say none of my titles overlap), I don't think any of these CDs sound as exceptional as the best handful of original vintage vinyl Blue Notes I own, even those from the 50's, but I'd love to hear a good original of "Soul Station".