How to reproduce sound of piano

I looked at Plasers room for the first time (boy am I slow or what). Setting up and integrating a sub woofer in a small room isn't a walk in the park, and IMHO, with all due respect to all, in a room this size may still not produce the sound that will make a piano sound more 'real', just with more bass, probably uneven bass. I really don't know........

But consider, that a lot of the warmth of tone, that will make a recording of a piano sound more authentic, may not be just in the deep bass, but may result from some elevation in frequency response say between 75 and 200hz. The use of a small sub, with a 2nd order crossover, set at 80 hz and the main speakers run full range could produce a bit of an increase in the frequency response between 100 and 200 hz - just enuf warmth to make a piano sound more real, without doing serious damage to imaging. (All of this of course ignores room and placement FR response issues).

Or not, just an idle thought I had in the john........

Newbee

Thats pretty much what I was thinking, I would be inclined to think that a pair of small subs placed on the side walls, just in front of the mains, could work well in that room?

30hz is plenty deep for piano...and that could be filtered a few db's if need be? I'm sure listening levels aren't over 75-85db's.

A pair of Martin Logan Dynamo are around $700 used, easy to sell when Plasers moves to his new home.

Of course I can't tell how deep the room is from the pic's...I was guessing 14-16ft?....and not a cube.

Dave

Newbee and Dave,

You guys are on to something - how to make a grand piano sound real in a room that is not big enough for a grand piano. It seems we all missed the obvious...it just ain't possible. The room is a good 50% of what you hear...

I'm no sub expert, and don't speak tech with great authority. But I can respond from gut experience (pun intended). A sub will add the kind of bass you 'feel' as opposed to that kind of bass with detail and nuance that you 'hear'. I wonder what part of the range of piano, or rather how much of what you actually listen to, might be 'enhanced' by use of a sub. Two subs, one sub, they'll both address the same thing (bass that is mostly felt rather than heard, without much nuance, and at a possible sacrifice of imaging), some better than others, and better in pairs, yes. Setup is critical. I read somewhere that the extra keys on the Bosendorfer can reach down to 16hz (seems unlikely, but?). I use an ACI Force XL sub (current model) in a smallish / midsize room. It is indeed tricky to setup and integrate well. I got it pretty well done, down to 20hz after which I loose about 8db (I think at 16hz). Lots of trial and error. They are good subs, indeed. Very fast and good for music (as opposed to HT). I still have some suckout issues to deal with my room, but most of that is a WAF sacrifice I fear. I'm working on it. If you're looking at subs and have a bigger budget than ACI or REL I really like the JBL subs - my friend's got one integrated beautifully with his Avalon Indras in a moderate room and that system does piano beautifully to my ears. I don't know how much the sub has to do with it though as it does a damn good job with or without the sub. I notice it's absence only in the lowest octaves (obviously), but I don't think that has an overall impact on how well his system reproduces piano. I think he's running a straight line-out from the pre with no filters on the mains (as I run my sub). I've tried filtering the mains too at 60hz, but I felt I was loosing some detail somehow so went back to line outs to both.

OOps, yes I must repent, being even much much slower than Newbee, I only now realized that Plaser had pictures of his room here! I've always had a mental picture of his "new room" in my head. Considering the room pictured here, I'd fully agree with what Mapman and others had to say and 30hz would indeed do.
So sorry folks, didn't want to be complicated.
Happy listening,
Detlof