12 Extremely Disappointing Facts About Popular Mus

Rja: 'The nazis really liked Wagner'
Hitler liked Wagner. Where did the idea come from that the nazis had some great appreciation of classical music? They were bigoted murdering thugs. Thats all.

Martykl: 'Posters might want to remain a bit sensitive to the merits of historically African (or other non-Western culture) based art forms'

Such As?

It does nor demean any other form,time, society ,nation,race or culture to state the obivious and that is the music of Bach,Mozart,Beethoven,Schubert et al is the greatest artistic acheivment of the human race.

Nor does that imply,in any way,shape or form, that the culture in which they lived and laboured is superior to any other.

If the ONLY music that existed was that of Bach alone, music would remain Gods greatest gift to man.

Rok2id,

My point was that "Western Classical Music" (as narrowly used by some who have posted here, please refer to the names/period Schubert mentions in the post directly above this one for an example), represents an expression of Western (as opposed to universal) values. It is structurally complex and emotionally/intellectually ambitious. Contemporary music based on historically African musical forms (I'm specifically thinking of the blues - but jazz, rock, and some contemporary Western classical music also qualifies), often reflects a different ideal:

Communicate a single idea/emotion simply, directly and with great urgency (thanks John Atkinson, Stereophile for that line).

To suggest that the former is worthwhile and the latter worthless - see my copied quote from Schubert - strikes me as culturebound and insensitive. More obviously, other culture's complex musical forms (i.e. Indian classical music) get summarily dismissed in those sweeping claims of the superiority of Western Classical Music.

This view is both narrow and - as I noted - somewhat insensitive.

Marty

PS This was PRECISELY the point of the Nazi embrace of classical music. It was an attempt to establish the superiority of a single culture (Aryan) and its values. I'm not suggesting that any posts here are racist or facist, but I am pointing out that some border on - IMO - the insensitive.

No "politically correct" responses please. I am talking about the substance of the underlying assumptions, not the semantics.

'Contemporary music based on historically African musical forms (I'm specifically thinking of the blues - but jazz, rock, and some contemporary Western classical music also qualifies), often reflects a different ideal:'

All of the of music you listed is 'western' music. I assume you meant African-American, if so, it's all western culture. Let's keep the true meaning of 'culture' in mind. It's one of the most misused words. There is only one culture in the USA.

I did not mean to imply that classical music makes western people better than others, no more than BMW and MB make germans better. It's just the facts. Classical music is complex, requires large groups playing different parts, has withstood the test of time and it is Written down. This seperated it from most of the world's music back in that time. Nowadays, after the masters have spoken, there is not a lot left to say. And this is true for Jazz and pop also. happy listening.

The nazis liked Wagner because he wrote antisemitic articles and harbored antisemitic sentiments. Plus his music glorified Germanic myths and history. I'm certainly not claiming that the nazis had any particular liking for classical music, only if it served their needs and their image of themselves.

In fact many "decadent" composers and other artists were maligned and persecuted, Jewish or not. Past composers with Jewish roots, such as Mendelsohnn, were looked down upon even though he was a Christian.

Sadly, Jewish composers who were not able to escape met worse fates.