The great myth of the XlR

Unfortunately, pitch and timing fall into another one of those elusive categories. Ones man pitch is another mans distortion.
How can you have decent timing in speakers (which I'm assuming we're talking here) with high order crossovers destroying the phase relationships and drivers even being wired out of phase?
I know amps with high negative feedback have timing issues.
Also, to elaborate on Cd's, a lot of them are recorded with phase and timing issues. This would account for some of the "Goofy" sound you receive from some of them.
Now, back to my bottom line, you can include timing and pitch variables in with all the rest. How do you know when the timing is right when it should have been wrong with the recording? You follow this? They're no absolutes. Everything is pure conjecture on the individual listeners part. This is why we have so many amps, speakers, etc.
Everyone has a different idea. Everyone wants to "Tune" a system to their specific sonic specifications.
I play sax and have for many years. They're so few speakers (and/or systems) that can reproduce sax realistically, it's truly worrisome. Spending great sums of money for something that is inaccurate by any definition doesn't make sense to me when you can honestly do it much cheaper and meet the sonic criteria of "Good sound."
Therefore, you try to purchase as honest and accurate a system as possible using test results, listening results and other criteria that gives you a fair chance at true accuracy. My belief is a good, honest and accurate system will provide greater long term satisfaction than a system that gets it right some of the time.
Look at how much is for sale on A'gon. All these people aren't trading up! Dissatisfaction runs rampant. There's a reason for this.

I see your point.

However correct pitch and timnimg will always have a possitiv influence on how the playback is.

I have not heaard of a recording where the producer would intensionaly distord the timing and pitch in the music .
Or the musicians playing out of tune.
Playing music live is about getting this as correct as possible.

Its actually very hard to get every pitch and timing in the perfect order.

The best source at least the digital ones are the ones that are most precise in this matter.
The nova physics memory player is on of them , the linn sondek cd 12 is also a great excemple.

Regarding speaker corssovers the sonus faber cremona uses a 1 order design , of the simpelst layout.
The moddify the drivers to sound have the want the too so the can design the corssover this way.

Its the most musical speaker i have heard yet right or wrong.

I am a dealer for deHavilland electronics, perhaps the finest sounding single ended amplifiers and preamplifiers available.

You have got to be kidding on the preamp!

Regarding speakers discussing wich one is the best makes as much sence to me as argumenting on what is best a blond girlfriend or a brunet.

We agree on that recordings can be very faulted but the aswer to why some recordings sound bad or unmusical is a more complexted matter.

Getting to the bottom of what neutrality is.
You described that you have not heard a system that can reproduce the sax in a beleiveble matter.
This infact has very littel to do with pitch and timing isue its in audioble noise and glare.
The less noise and glare the more you hear the detaljs and there for the instrument.

What got me into thise fully digital tact amps was it was the most detajld amps you i could buy.
The are basicly a dac with power the will only accept a digital signal from a transport and the signal stays digital until the speaker terminals.

Jean yves kerbrat is one man that searces for the truth and if you vissit his hompage you will see 5 tact 2150 amps fully moddified replacing cary triods driving a five way hornsystem using the digital crossovers .

He takes getting rid of audioble noise to the extreme having his own powerplant for pure audio and people working on his amps reguarly.

His goal is purly to reproduce have a instrument sounds in real life.

My tact millennium is the reference amp in the tact audio family and it has been moddified to the limit .
It is in another league then eny of jean yves amps.
Feet it with a equal kvality source and it will take you all the way down the rabbit hole.
Its the only amp i have heard that can reproduce the timbres of a acoustic guitar in a beleiveble matter.

Stock it was very detajled but after the mod what happent was the noise and glare where audioble gone making it even more detajld but at the same time more smoth.

What that did was making every thing sound real , scary real .

This is one type of neutrality you can athive where all glare and noise is gone leaving only pure sound enhancing the hifi parameter like soundstage seperation and detajl extraction.
But this has nothing to do with neutral musicality

There are much more to it then that.

Pitch and timing has nothing to do with noise or glare , infact hearing it done better or worse might not even be heard with a solo instrument.

But when the music startes and all the littel rytmic changes , basslines instruments , different frq all have to fit in as perfect order as possible it will become very clear how important this is.

This is the other kind of neutral
if a system distords thise musical clues its not neutral no matter have noiseless and transperant the sound may be.

The best gear or precerving this is i have heard is linn klimax gear,
It just gets the bass and rythme right , its also the most mucial neutral hifi i have heard it simpley gets out of the way of the music or in other words destord it to a lesser extend .
It really needs to be heard to be understood, I sure did not until i got exposed to it.
Linn fanatics swear to the this and treassure it namly because of the pitch and timing correctness, and there ingeneeres feel very strongly about this matter.

Regarding sources im am a beleiver in the source first theory.
The speaker can only reproduce the signal its feet.

The company that moddified my millennium also specilizes in being on the forthfront of digital sources having esoteric ,wadia , dcs , and the likes in there hall of fame latly its a northstar heavily moddified and a slimdevices also moddified on the top of the list.
every thing gets decussed to great lenght on there forum.

The real next level of digital playback will ironicly not be from the cd but from a hardisk.
Because music played back as a file can be in bitperfect kvality where a cd drive playing music in real time simply dont get everything right.
however the most importenat part still lies in where the digital signal is converted into analog signal

The nova physics memory player that uses this tech is said to be the best transport today.
What reviewers and people say above all is have musical it is.

I have a slimdevices transporter that uses the same basic technology but it also has a great dac in it.
In the add the say that the soundkvality will supass that of even the most excotic cd player , the say this because it has a bit perfect audio circuit and also xtremly accurate in pitch and timing.
In reality it really dossent mostly becaus perfect timing and bit perfect siganl goes right out the window when you have noise and glare fron the powersupplyes.

Mine dos not have the glare or glassyness
the lyngdorf cd-1 it replaced had just as big soundstage and just as much detajl but then the compariosn ends the transporter has a ease and musicality that makes the cd-1 sound like a machine instaed of a music.
Its just as detajld if not more but its all in perfect order and nothing stick out using a simplyfied term.

Hifi as a hoppy is a journy and i sure havent seen the best yet but i do know now that musicality lies in the pitch and timing.

There is not rights or wrong some like it analytical some romantic but pitch and timeing done right will never be a bad thing , if it was then the person dont like music pure and simple.

thanks