USB to DAC questions


Well, yes I have gone through many stages of what route I think I want to go for my new system... coming all the way from using a Zune for a player.

Now, from doing some reading on here, it sounds like the cheapest way (im on a super budget) to get great sound from my computer is to either go with a squeezebox or run USB to a USB-DAC. I was sold on the squeezebox... but it looks like I could pick up a used DAC for about the same price and have superior sound quality. Err, a DAC would beat a squeezebox in full a/d mode, right?

Alright, so I feel loaded with questions about a computer hookup that I didn't see any clear-cut answers to...

First, when we are talking about hooking up a USB-DAC with a USB cable... are we talking about just running the cable straight from one of the built-in motherboard USB ports... or are we talking about running it out of some additional hardware like a sound card with USB out. From what is sounded like, it was just one of the stock USB ports... but I need to make sure of this.

Second, most people here seem to favor MAC to output their USB signal from. Buying another computer would be WAY out of my budget. I am planning on running it from my workstation PC which is running XP because all my editing programs in Vista ran terribly. Yet, dual-booting to Vista just to have good audio would be ok as I already own a copy. So... just to be clear, there would be a big difference between XP and Vista when running USB out? It would be ideal to NOT have to dual-boot... but I will if there is that big of a difference. Also, has anyone been able to compare Vista sound with Mac sound?

Third, can someone elaborate on the difference between a NOS DAC and an over-sampling DAC?

Fourth, how would the Outlaw RR2150 receiver with a built-in USB DAC compare to a separate USB DAC paired with a separate amplifier?

And the last that I can think of for now... Does anyone have any opinions of the Musiland Md-10 DAC? I only ask because there is one listed on here in the classifieds at a price close to what I want to pay.

Whew, ya that was a loaded posting. I hope you guys can help me out with these questions. Thanks a ton.
djembeplay
Gmood1- Aw, great... thats good to hear another positive input about the paradisea.

I am especially interested in the Audio Sector you mentioned. Do you have any idea how this would perform side-by-side to a paradisea?
I've owned both. I didn't have the USB version of the AS Dac however. The one in the photo was actually mine. They sound very similar. I thought the Paradisea was a tad more immediate and dynamic. The AS Dac was more laid back. Both are good. Look for a review on 6moons under Audio Zone System: DAC1, PRE-T1, AMP-2. the reviewer does a good job describing the Dac. The Audio Zone Dac-1 is the commercial version of the Audio Sector Dac..built by the same man.

I'm the guy that told the reviewer he needed a dejitter device while using the Audio Zone Dac..since he used a basic cd player as a transport. These NON OS Dacs are VERY sensitive to jitter.
First USB is ubiquitous. Meaning that it is friggin everywhere on everything. Billions of USB ports and devices out there. Obviously implementation is a concern but at the end of the day it either works or it doesn't work.

When you start to think about all this, you need to get your head around this idea of a world market that is all based on standards - no one can sell crap that doesn't work... and outsourcing and out assembly is the name of the game - not just for price but for speed and flexibility and shipping considerations...

As far as why people develop for a Mac it is most likely not because of the USB implementation. Developing for Mac means walking on about 95% of the market. Unless the application is so specialized that the customer is going to buy a computer just to run it.

Much more likely that the Mac OS offers other benefits as a platform, certain APIs etc. You need to take that kind of stuff with a big grain of salt - the Blue Side is filled with misinformation and urban myths.

Don't know about hi and lo quality ports. There are two standards USB1.1 and USB2.0 Difference is in bandwidth and rate. For audio 1.1 is fine

The other difference I am aware of is that not all USB ports have sufficient power for all units. For instance the Mac keyboard has USB ports but they won't run everything - you get a warning and then you move back to the tower.

Hard to say if Leopard will deliver better audio then Tiger. You'll do just fine with Tiger.

From what I have read, though it handles the drivers differently, Vista is not a particular improvement on XP in the audio space. But its all what you're used to - and what else you want to do with the machine.

Audio playback doesn't take much computational power, lots of people use their oldest machine as a music server and save the horsepower for where they need it.
GMood- Hmm, tough choice b/w the two then. Thanks for the info.

Ckorody- I went and checked my source about what the developer of that camera mod said about PC USB vs Mac USB. Here is an excerpt:

"To elaborate on the PC support issues in the past, our current Andromeda system for the DVX works over USB2.0. This is one of the main reasons why we could bring this system to market for such a low cost. The main 'PC' problem with USB2.0 however, is that there is no minimum required data bandwidth to be supported by USB2.0 hardware manufacturers(the 480Mbps number is just marketing).

Apple machines(with a few older exceptions) have a fast enough USB2.0 bus to support Andromeda. PC's, on the other hand, have all sorts of varying performance and the only way to find out if a system performs fast enough is to test it. It then becomes a significant problem if we need to test even a few of the hundreds(and ever-changing) PC models out there for compatibility."

But, of course, this is just one person and one subjective opinion. Also, this is in reguards to uncompressed video... which needs a much fatter pipeline as the datastream is much larger. With audio, even if there is more "varying performance" on a PC, it may not be an issue as having the maximum data potential may not be as crucial. But, you know, I'm sort of just shootin' fish in a barrel here.

Also, this application is so specialized that someone would buy a computer to run it.

I'm thinking I might try a used mac whether the USBs are superior or not... partly because I am entertaining the idea of picking up the camera mod being described in the quote... partly because people seem to really like the audio quality on them... partly because they are cheap on Ebay... and partly because I have never used one and it could be fun to try :).

If I upgraded to leopard from tiger, what is the install process like for a Mac OS. I know and have done many windows installs from scratch... is it the same process? Or is it like trying to understand another language completely...

Ok, I have another question too... this is shifting gears quite a bit, but here we go. After the Dac, I will only have about $400 to spend on an amp. Do you think my best move would be to buy an integrated or go with just a power amp?

Just running a power amp raises a few concerns for me. First and foremost, it seems kind of dangerous, doesn't it? I mean, if you have a sudden system error and the OS plays an 'error' sound... it could come through your speakers at full power and damage... something... right? Another concern is not having any other hookups to run a DVD player or something into the amp. Also, I heard if you lower the volume on digital audio, the resolution it's self is decreased, is this true? That would mean that if I used a laptop not at full volume, I would get sub-quality sound from what I could when all the way turned up, right?

Man, a lot to know with this stuff. I appreciate all the help guys.

Cheers-
Another Paradisea+ owner here. I do not have the USB version however. Currently just have it connected to the CD player via coax. Leaning towards the Trends UD-10 with the battery pack for connecting to the computer.

An Acer running Windows Vista. Vista improves on XP, and all older versions of Windows, by eliminating k-mixer which was what all the driver workarounds focussed on. Basically Vista is just XP without the extra hassle audio-wise. I've been using Vista since July without any complaints. If you can go Mac do it. I'd also go I2S, but the solutions here tend to be very expensive for what you get.

Some more expensive DACs including the USB Benchmark use I2S eliminating the need for an external connector. BTW the Paradisea is preferred to my $1k NuForce processor. I am using the Bendix tube and a tube damper rather than the cheap stock tube. It's also worth noting that the consensus view is that the Benchmark is very good but somewhat analytical, some people prefer the Lavry DA-10 or Monarchy NM-24. Also, you mentioned the SN DACs as well, just didn't make the cut for me, but the price is pretty good.