If you had to pay full retail, would you...???

Drubin,

I made the sale, my point to the client was that I was all the "edge" he needed and the fact that his behaviour did impact the type of advice and products he would be shown. I sold him stands at cost to make him feel his edge :).

Cheap people need love too.

Addressing McGrogans trust issue; my anecdote is I send the customer (many actually) to another store to buy something at the competitions, being very specific and the doofus at the other store wouldn't take his order and gives him a hard time about the advice I'd given him or her that they'd come back and buy "the wrong stuff" from me. Sometimes this would be a $3-4K amplifier! Can't fix stupid I guess the saying goes.

Audio retail is not perfect and the press and manufacturers scratching each others backs has a great deal to do with this. Because " good business" means carrying the best selling products not the best sounding products. The easiest thing to do in the world is take an order. Interesting anecdote; I never demoed a piece of Mark Levinson gear that I sold and I never sold a piece of mark Levinson gear that I demoed?! Just so you know how the popular "lifestyle" brands actually get sold.

I have not paid full retail for any of the things I have purchased. I base my component on large part to whether or not I can either get it used or at a good discount. This has limited my selection considerably and it takes me some time to get what I want but in the end, I am pretty happy with my gear.

That being said, I also agree that you are better off in the long run working with a local dealer. The relationships i ahve formed my with dealers have allowed us to work togehter much more openly. I trust that he is giving me a good advice and a good deal and he knows that I am a loyal customer, a win win situation.

The internet has also helped me to connect with other audiophiles. In the past I have been able to get together with a few for a "group" purchase, allowing me to save almost 30% off retail.

Using all of these different avenues has saved me about 40% from retail (for my entire system). Believe me, I would not have purchased my gear at anywhere near retail!

No, never, no way.

12-28-06: D_edwards
Let me explain something most audiophiles really have trouble with;

I'm sure your customers enjoy paying more money for the condescending tone. I enjoy being talked down to, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.(Note: Sarcasm Alert)

Well now audiophiles are down too public forums and "public" trade shows to spend thousands of dollars most of you have to talk to a deadbeat 50 year old types or some kid because stores cannot hire real professionals and you spend thousands and thousands of dollars on advice from people who simply do not have the expertise to give it.

Now even a simpleton like myself can understand, so only knowledgeable folks in their 30's really know audio.....ahhhhh the picture is becoming clearer. Now I know to check the salesman's driver's license to make sure he's in his 30's. Thanks Audio Super Salesman!! Great Tip!!!

Most people in my age (30 something) who are smart and creative have left the industry altogether or have moved up into the rep levels where they do not help the end user anymore.

So what does this say about you Audio Super Salesman??? Are you not smart and creative???

By the way 15 years in the business, and I don't know one guy in the world who is that retail level who'd i trust to build a system for me.
D_edwards (System | Answers)

Well shoot Audio Super Salesman, if you can't trust anyone in the retail level, how does a simple, naive, audiophile like me stand a chance???

I'll sleep better tonight knowing that you are here to protect us Audio Super Salesman!!

“I'm quite comfortable paying full retail for the gear I buy from my local dealer…. It doesn't take many "discount mistakes" to offset the cost of a paying a good dealer his markup”.

Gliderguider, I found your comments of interest and took a few moments to take a look at your system (very nice!), which according to your figures (and the fact that you say you pay full retail to your dealer) exceeds $90,000. This is an extraordinary investment. My question to you is how do you feel about selling your equipment at a loss of as much as 40% or even 50% (and we all know with some gear the loss can be even worse) when you decide to upgrade? Unless you are one of those rare individuals who put together a system and keep it for 10 or more years the “discount mistakes” occur every time you get the itch to try something new. And given the obvious fact that you must be one of your dealer’s better customers, don’t you think it appropriate that he offer you a discount on items such as cables that have markups often in the range of several thousand per cent.

I have no objection to supporting your local dealer, especially if you find a good one and have the financial resources to do so, but I believe you will find a good number of audiophiles on this site who have skills equal to your dealer (sometimes better) when it comes to selecting audio components and putting them into a system that is musically synergistic. And they are doing so sometimes for 30 or 40 cents on the dollar by taking advantage of the used market. I have been in this hobby for 30 years or more and have owned lots of gear in that time. Rarely have I paid full retail for new gear. So far I’ve yet to meet a dealer whose skill at listening and selecting components exceeded my own. And the vast majority are simply good salesmen (if they stay in business) who offer products that meet their particular bias and that they feel they can best sell for a good profit.

Most on this site I would venture do not have the resources to purchase expensive audio components (often much overpriced ‘luxury’ items) and own $100K retail systems such as yourself. For those who have the money and do not have the time or inclination to learn how to build a good system on their own a dealer such as yours certainly becomes an asset. For those who do, Audiogon and other used avenues are a great tool for achieving the same end for sometimes as little as 20 cents on the dollar. So far in my many years as an audiophile I have made no “discount mistakes.”

Justlisten…this brings me to your original question, and my answer is no, I would not be participating in the purchase of “specialized, expensive, low production gear if it was only available New and at full retail.” Anymore all too much of high-end audio has gone the route of catering to the ‘carriage trade,’ and hopefully more than a few of us have figured out that is only about perceived status and inflation of the ego. Less and less it is about music, and more and more about material possessions. I am a musician and my love of music is the reason I got started in this hobby as a young teenager. I could be happy with much less (and probably not give up that much), but taking advantage of the used market and the fickle nature of audiophiles who are never satisfied has allowed me to continue to own ‘expensive’ gear at more reasonable prices even as the price of our hobby has gone into the stratisphere. But I fear the insane pricing we are seeing today is a prelude to the end of specialized audio, and it is too bad that manufactures are allowing their greed to exclude a new batch of young audiophiles. When a newcomer sees a single 1 meter digital cable or power cord that retails for $3500 (and costs the manufacture maybe $100 to make) it not only makes our hobby look insane, but also unobtainable to most. Little wonder Apple is selling tens of thousands of iPods every day and high-end audio had its best years in the 80’s. The fact of the matter is most of the extremely expensive audio gear available today is not that much better than what can be had at sane prices, and in many cases no better at all (often just clever marketing, snake oil, or just a really nice paint job like Wilson loudspeakers). As is often the case, and with so many things, it all boils down to the laws of diminishing returns.