System psychology, or just psyched out?

Thanks guys for your responses, they are all very thoughtful, but I think that maybe you are somewhat missing my point.

I will try to clarify.

Chadnliz said: "The Blindfold wont fly around here, many buy with their eyes and will never allow themselves to be taken in by anything cheap or mass market, mentally they are hung up on what they feel hi-end should be..."

That is my point: that other factors(cost, brand name, marketing, reputation, status appeal, ownership, comfort and familiarity with the product, etc.) besides the actual, physical, objective sound influences our PERCEPTION of the musical performance. And, if it was purely about the sound, then the blindfold(a blind listening test of comparable systems) should fly...I don't know, I am losing my train of thought here and am having a difficult time trying to say what I am thinking, but, I just do not think that it does as most people are enamored by the sound and equipment they own and have in their homes. By this I mean they are subjectively skewed and biased, prejudiced toward their own systems. And I believe this is only human nature. Just as we seek new adventures, experiences and discovery, as Markphd said, we also enjoy, prize and value, for lack of better terms, the things which we own. And this inevitably, inherently and indubitably affects, influences our judgement, IMHO. That is all I am saying.

I don't mean to be argumentative or anything, but I just wanted to clarify my point as I believe most of you were going a bit astray... so to speak. And of course there's nothing wrong with that, that's what we're all here for :-O LOL!, I only wanted to communicate myself and my thoughts better, clearer, more precisely, that is all.

Again, thanks for all your comments, it has been an interesting discussion which I do appreciate, thanks.

"I just want to know how many times one needs to watch those Bose commercials (and read the Bose advertising literature) before he can become convinced that an inexpensive Bose system can compete with and possibly beat a $100k audio system."

"Audio_obsessed_novic, do you really believe your Bose system is that good or have you simply been romanced/brainwashed by the ads and have rationalized that the Bose is that good so that you won't need to spend any more money?"

No Plato, I have not been brainwashed by the Bose ads(I cannot stand them and won't watch them anymore), but I do believe that with the exception of maybe one or two in-store setups, my cheap and modest home system really does sounds better than what I have heard. And that is the crux of my problem. I know better sound is available out there (I have heard it a couple of times), but otherwise, I just have not been generally able to find it. I do not want to sound crazy, contradicting myself in every other sentence, but... You see, I am very frustrated: While I do enjoy and like the sound of my home system, I am not entirely satisfied as I do know that better stuff/sound exists out there, but I have been unable to find it, despite my best efforts. Everything I listen to seems to sound worse than my own stuff, at least at the store anyway, and my question of "System psychology, or just psyched out" is simply trying to understand why this is.

"Another simple thing to realize is that because expensive systems typically have greater extension at the frequency extremes and are more dynamic, they excite room acoustics problems to a much higher degree than a more frequency-limited and compressed system would. And matching components for proper system synergy becomes increasingly important with higher-resolution rigs. In other words, it's very easy to screw up the sound of any expensive system if you don't pay careful attention to system set-up details... If you think it must be set up correctly because it's in an audio store... well, I urge you to reconsider that notion."

I am very glad you mention this, as I was thinking that this may be a very significant factor. I am not sure if my audio store has the best acoustic environment in which to showcase audio products. The room is mostly rectangular, has a level ceiling and is usually overly crammed with stuff, inventory, which probably diffises the sound a bit. While I know that given my equipment and setup, my room is probably pretty good acoustically, given the modest size, offset demsensions and slanted roof,(both of which help to reduce modal reflections I believe), along with the mixture of surface types, reflecting and absorbing. Now I certainly do not have a world class listening room or anything, just a shabby studio apartment, but still... it's probably better than the Audio Lab. Well, at least in my mind, ears and everywhere in between. ;-)

Thanks,
BFN.

P.S. Oh, and by the way, I have been to a Bose outlet shop and auditioned the new 201, 301 version 5, along with the 901s. And being thin and waify, strident on top, undefined in the lower base and weak in the upper, they all sounded horrible to me. So I do try to be consistent and objective, definitely impartial, to say the least.

I don't think I missed your point at all, as far as your further clarification of it has illuminated. What I am missing, and perhaps you can help me here, is your motivation for asking the question of a bunch of folks who most likely have entirely different perceptions. I'm just speculating there, because, as far as I know, no one else here has heard both your own system in your own room, and those in your dealer's room. I'd still hazard a guess that the majority of others hear may disagree, certainly on only a verbal description of the components involved (and certainly psychology has everything to do with that since we're all humans). My point is that this stuff is all entirely subjective (psychological, if you want to call it that) and it really is only you that should matter to you in the end. You have nailed the mechanism at play. Bravo. What is so difficult to grasp there? You do seem to be argumentative to me, or at least looking for an argument, because you seem to belabor the same point (beating a dead horse, if you will). You'll get no argument from me that psychology is strongly at play here, and I'd ad that it is far more complex than we can begin to say and as different as our fingerprints in each of us. I can't tell you what your opinions should be, nor can anyone else here; you form them on your own, and for infinitely complex reasons.

So I do try to be consistent and objective, definitely impartial, to say the least.

Where you will get an argument from me is applying the term "objective" to any of your personal observations, no matter how hard you "try". It is not possible. If it is filtered through you, IMO, it becomes a subjective observation. You can use the term "objective" when you start talking about numbers and curves and graphs spit out by machines. As far as I'm concerned, those "objective observations" (by machines) of this gear are only a point of departure, and I would choose to depart and move a vast distance away from them as they've never proven to mean much where real-world (subjective) listening comes into play. In fact, some of the components I like best, SET amps for instance, don't look that great on paper in "objective" terms, but they sure sound great to me when set up well with synergistic components.

For what little it may be worth, I've never been really wowed by impressions at a dealer showroom, either. I've been to some pretty high-end showrooms too. I have been very impressed by other's systems in their homes, most of which were thoughtfully and carefully assembled over many years from some of the very same components I've heard in some of those showrooms. But again, that's all subjective. Your "good, bad, better, best" is entirely different from my "good, bad, better, best." Neither are right or wrong, they're just opinions. Of course psychology is involved, we are humans and not machines. Really, what is your point?

Marco

Audio_obsessed_novic, have you thought that perhaps you are predisposed to preferring your system to the mega buck systems just because it is so cheap. Perhaps, the pride of owning something so cheap that out performs mega buck systems has altered your perceptions.

I doubt that music reproduction is quite as subjective as this thread suggests, and that most of us could broadly rank audio systems in ability to recreate something akin to live performances as we remember them. One can argue that is the ultimate goal of an audio system.

Taste is acquired to be sure. An early study by RCA labs, before "HIFI" was introduced to the public at large, found that most of the study group preferred to hear music without extended frequency range, especially high frequencies, rather than a more faithful representation of the origianl. Those preferences may or may not have changed over the years.

Like Chanliz, I read OP with interest until he noted how he preferred the sound of his system to sound of expensive systems he had heard at a dealer, then I dropped out. The word troll came to mind.

db