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6 new Totem Hawks vs Used Wilson set-up ?

I think I have an interesting item for discussion. I am building a multipurpose, 2-ch audio and 6.1 home theater system. I also like the idea of being able to listen to 5 channel audio but this is not critical for the decision making process. I have spent the last 6 months auditioning dozens of speakers and I have it narrowed down to 2 manufacturers. I have really fallen in love with the Totem Hawk. I like some of the other Totems, but I have auditioned the Hawk 3 times, in 3 rooms, with three sets of components and loved them each time. I had not originally considered Wilson’s as they are out of my price point. I casually listened to a pair of W/Ps once or twice while I was waiting for the other rooms to be set up for the auditions. I liked them but I did not use my source material or listen to them very critically. I know they are considered to be some of the best speakers, period.

In this process, I have become familiar with various online used gear communities, and now I see that buying used Wilson gear brings them into my price range. I like the idea of having matching speakers around the theater room. I could go with smaller Totem speakers (Lynk or Rainmaker) and save some money, however, I lose similar amount of space and I lose coolness of having 6 matched speakers. This is a dedicated room so I can place whatever I want wherever I want (within reason).

6 new Totem Hawks = ~$8000-9000.
Used W/P 8 or Sofia II + 3 watch surrounds + watch center (or third W/P or Sophia II) = ~$12-14,000.

So for a bit more $, I can buy what most people would say is a significantly better speaker. Of course I need to audition for myself to determine if I subjectively like the Wilson’s.

Up for debate is whether buying the “better” Wilsons will make my system sound better or worse due to the rest of my equipment being of a lower caliber than the Wilsons. Will the resolving ability of the Wilsons highlight inadequacies in the rest of my system, or is buying a better speaker…buying a better speaker…and will be an improvement.

Existing equip:
Marantz AV8801
Parasound Halo A52 (5x125W)
jasonatptld
10 responses Add your response
jameswei
883 posts
 
First, you need to audition the Wilson's seriously. While many might judge the Wilson's to be "better," there are some people who do not like the Wilson sound. Best to verify for yourself.

If you find you like the Wilsons, then How Much better do they sound to you? If it's a big difference, then they would be worth paying up for. Otherwise, it becomes more of a value judgment on your part.

Another issue is how committed are you to improving your system? Many of us have gone through numerous upgrade cycles where all of our equipment is gradually replaced with "better" units. If you think you will eventually upgrade from your Marantz and Parasound, then probably the Wilson' might be the better choice, assuming you like their sound.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
In this hobby, there is not a linear relationship between cost and better sound.
You say you have "really fallen in love" with the sound of the Totem Hawks, I'd buy 6 used Hawks and spend the extra dough on upgrading your electronics.
bjesien
1,283 posts
 
I would step back a little and look at the math. In the end you get what the market gives you. If you want an awesome two channel system spend around $30k (new) and you enter the market (IMHO). Awesome surround means maybe $45k.

In a surround system I would spend less on the speakers and more on the electronics. Maybe good mains, but less on the rears and sides.

I think you would make a mistake to try the make it all equal. I'd go with near equal on the mains (33%) electronics 34%, other speakers and sub 33%. Better sub then surround speakers.

Oh no, I forgot cables. :O
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
I wouldn't assume that the Wilson is a better speaker based on its higher cost ans very recognizable name. Some listeners love them and others dislike their sound. If at all possible you need to hear them in your system. The cliche "you get what you pay for" has numerous exceptions when it comes to High End Audio. It's certainly possible that you may prefer the sound of the Totem or another speaker that's less expensive than the Wilson. Trust your ears.
Good Luck,
raks
468 posts
 
I recently sold my Wilson Duette's and purchased a pair of Sonus faber Olympica I's. In my case, it was clear that my "just OK" amplifier wasn't up to the task of driving the "better" Wilsons... and that my "just OK" amplifier and the Olympica I's play very nice together.
jl35
3,977 posts
 
If you find you like the Wilsons much more than the Totems, I believe a 2 channel Wilson system will sound far better than a six channel Totem system, but as you seem to know, not with your current electronics. So total cost then becomes significantly more. I also believe that for multi channel music, system set up is crucial, far more so than for home theater.
jfrech's avatar
jfrech
1,816 posts
 
I like JL35s comments, I'll add you could consider WP7's for a little less and spend that on a killer intregrated amp and be ahead. For the Wilson's to sound their best, a trained dealer installation is likely a must-even if buying used...
zd542
5,339 posts
 
"06-14-14: Bjesien
I would step back a little and look at the math. In the end you get what the market gives you. If you want an awesome two channel system spend around $30k (new) and you enter the market (IMHO). Awesome surround means maybe $45k."

No offense, but that's silly.

"Up for debate is whether buying the “better” Wilsons will make my system sound better or worse due to the rest of my equipment being of a lower caliber than the Wilsons. Will the resolving ability of the Wilsons highlight inadequacies in the rest of my system, or is buying a better speaker…buying a better speaker…and will be an improvement."

Its a good point, but I would refine it and say that its not about "better" in absolute terms, but "better" in the context of system matching. For example, I have a pair of Wilson's in my 2nd system. With those speakers, you have to consider that they are very efficient when you put a system together. With some components, you can get a his, either from too much gain or maybe even from not being the cleanest design. Its important to note, though, the hiss is not necessarily due to the fact that that the Wilson's are so revealing, but its a matter of efficiency. Most of the time, I can take a component that didn't work well on the Wilson's and put it in my main system that has more revealing speakers, and get no hiss.

As always, system matching is the key to good sound. If you are not planning to buy new electronics, you need to find speakers that work with what you have. Wilson's may work, but the only way I would buy them is to demo them with the electronics you will be using. I've heard that some people have good luck with Wilson and Parasound. Marantz, I don't know one way or the other, if its a good match.
tls49's avatar
tls49
1,351 posts
 

Agree with Charles1dad, as after some critical listening, you may still prefer the Totem Hawk to the Wilsons. If you compare two cars, the most expensive may not be the better one, however it may be more luxurious, but that doesn't make it better. I also agree with Zd542 that Wilsons are likely more critical of the electronics used.

As far as home theater, in the early days, center and rears were derived with rear being limited bandwidth and mono, however today all channels are discrete, uncompressed, and full bandwidth. A sound may move through the room in anyway imaginable, or be fixed at any place in the room, therefore any two or more speakers may be used to create the sound. More than just the "coolness" of identical speakers is the fact that there will be an absolute perfect seamless blend throughout the entire room with very little to no localization of the speakers. No matter how good the timbre match is with different speakers, it will not be perfect like identical speakers. This is easy to hear by running the test tone. Timbre matched will be better than mixed speakers, but there will be a slight character difference to the test tone as it moves around the room. With identical speakers, that test tone will sound exactly the same all the way around the room.

Final thought is the last line at the end of this article.
jasonatptld OP
2 posts
 
Thanks for all of the input folks. I ended up deciding to put a stake in the ground and ordered the Hawks. I think the extra $$$ will be better used (at this point) for cabling, phono, room treatments, and seating. Once I get the entire room set up and tuned, I can start shopping for upgrades (if I feel the need).
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