Yes, I seen it.
R.
ADC 26 BEST PRITCHARD CARTRIDGE EVER? or BEST CARTRIDGE EVER?
Dear friends: I always said that each day is a learning day and if like me that from several years now think always " out of the box " many of you will find out great rewards that audio always has for us as an unexpected gifts.
Obviously that’s not easy to think " out of the box " because to do that we have to have a different kind of self attitude where between other things we must to forget for ever at least the 50% of all the information we learned through our audio life in the AHEE. With out that " forget " we just can’t do it.
This review is more than an usual audio item review for many reasons I will try to explain over the thread.
First I want to leave very clear my room/audio system main target: STAY TRUER TO THE RECORDING.
To achieve that we have to think that usually the recording microphones are positioned at very near field of the MUSIC sources even like in the 3 Blind Mice recordings: inside the instruments. Recording microphones are not " seated " at 20m-35m. from the source as usually we listen when attend to a live acoustical music event. So we have to have self experiences of live MUSIC seated at near field. If some of us do not have that kind experiences then is very dificult to understand what I’m talking about here and elsewhere.
OK, the ADC 26 cartridge is a vintage Induced Magnet invented motor design by Peter Pritchard ( that pass away. ), it’s not a MM or MI or MC kind of cartridge design. Here you can read about and on his patent and a little of his audio life history:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/peter-pritchard
The cartridge under review is this:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ihw6yo.jpg
that is part of the ADC 25, 26 and 27 cartridge family.
This is the ADC 25:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/download/file.php?id=31979
and this the ADC 27:
https://adelcom.net/ADC-adc%2027.JPG
and here the ADC 26 specs ( please take note those 15° stylus tip mounted angle. ):
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/adc/26.shtml
As you can see and read all seems very old and rudimentary with really humble cartridge specs ( nothing spectacular down there. ) where the elliptical stylus is: 0.03 x 0.07.
The ADC 25 red dot stylus ( exist the red blue 0.03 x 0.09 and the white dot. ) is similar to the 26 and the ADC 27 change is that is the same 26 stylus type but nude. I own all those models that comes with the same cartridge body but different color and where the cartridge motor in the 26 and 27 is similar and the cartridge differs only in the stylus and that the compliance instead 50 cu as in the 25 and 26 is " only " 40cu.
All these cartridges are my oldest ones ( comes from the 60’s. ) that I bougth years ago when started the very long MM Agon thread and I remember that I mentioned there the 25 and 26 but almost no one took cares about not even me because I really never gave it the enougth listening time to those cartridges and was only like a month ago that I really discovery this fenomenal, outstanding, astonishing and " perfect " performer.
When you listen it you are not listen as if was alike MM/MI/electrect cartridges but more as a live event/truer to the recording with some characteristics only shared for the best of the best LOMC cartridges.
I made my self developed evaluation proccess where I’m deep trained and is almost " bullet proof ".
The best MM/MI cartridge is with out doubt the AKG P100LE followed by Astatic MF-2500 and others as the JVC X1MK2 or the Technics EPC 100CMK4 but no one of them can even the quality performance levels of the ADC 26. The ADC is in a different league " the major league ".
I compared the 26/27 against the Colibri, Ortofon A95, Lyra Etna, My Sonic Labs Supereminent ( I think ? ? ) Dynavector XV-1s, Clearaudio Goldfinger and some other vintage top MC designs. No one of them beats overall the ADC 26.
The main 26 characteristics to beat belongs at both frequency extremes where if we want first rate quality performance there first condition is the transient response/attack of the music notes and develops of harmonics along the decay timing that’s where exist clear differences in between MC cartridges and all the other kind of designs. Nothing but the 26/27 compares with a top LOMC cartridges in those regards.
The transient response and fast timing decay in the low of the bass range is second to none and " mimic " what we can listen in a live event at nearfield position. With out this " sole " characteristic MUSIC as MUSIC just can’t exist and is here where belongs the MUSIC foundation.
At the other frequency extreme things are more of the bass range quality performance. In both frequency range it’s not only the rigthness of the transient response but the notes definition its very clear distinction in between and its harmonics. Exist no overhang or bold sound. At the high frequency range ( at the top. ) nothing can beats a Colibri 0.22mv output and the only contender for is precesily these ADC 26/27 ! !
As you can see the 26/27 specs says not very wide frequency range but when listen to it you can sware it goes from 5hz to over 100khz but the more important issue is the clear definition. When the timing in those frequency ranges are spot on then the overall MUSIC rythm is just spectacular and makes and moves all your feelings and body.
We all hear through all our body not only through our ears. We hear through the skin, bones, skind hair and millions of nervous terminations in the body and when you are listening to the ADC 26/27 all those have a true meaning as never before.
What about soundstage, layering, inner detail and the like: just very first rate. Tonal balance is outstanding nothing at the broad wide frequency range tells you " hey: I’m here ", exist a true coherence in between all frequency ranges.
Yes, it’s a UNIQUE listen experience a NEW listen experience coming from a very older cartridge and YES is the best Pritchard design and if you think that you already own the best cartridge ever you need to experience the ADC 26/27. I compared against the best out there in the same system with the same tonearms and same everything.
Was not only me but some other audiophiles friends where at least one of them is a music player. This one is a drummer/batery player and when he was at my place I run ( between other LPs. ) the Sheffield D2D with Ron Tutt and Jim Keltner great drummers with out telling him which cartridge was playing and my friend that’s a true expert with those instruments and golden ear by nature was " jaws dropping " and it’s because is incredible the TRUE of that kind of sound coming from the ADC’s
. This recording specially is something to listen through the 26/27 at 95db SPL with peaks in the 100db neigborhood, you can touch the sound and cut it with a sizzers ! ! !. It’s amazing.
The ADC never lost its aplomb no matters at what SPL you are listening from 70db to over 95dbs .
Every single good recording " sings " as never before of all what I experienced in my system and several other top audio systems.
One of the best MUSIC LP for testing any audio item is the Telarc 1812 and not because the cannon shots but overall frequency ranges that’s always a challenge for any cartridge andd for any audio system in other frequency ranges than the bass range.
No one of the other top LOMC cartridges can even overall the ADC 26/27 quality performance levels in this LP recording in all the frequency range other than the very low bass where the ADC beats to all of them.
I running the ADC 26 at 1.1grs and due ot its very high compliance ( 50cu. ) and cartridge body design is a very low rider when the 27 is only a low rider.
As with other top LOMC cartridges the alignment set up is critical but with the ADC 26 we have to do it with the best accuracy we can and with the VTA/SRA tiny/sligthly up at the tonearm bearing. This VTA/SRA is critical and as always not only depends of the accuracy overall set up but room system dependent.
That explosiveness, power, dynamics, transient response, thightness, flow, true tonal balance agresiveness, natural brigthness, rythm that usually exist only in a live MUSIC event with the ADC 26/27 you can feel that never was in your home audio system as nearer as with these ADC cartridges.
Those audiophiles terms as: lush, organic, color, smothness, bold, and the like does not exist through these " truer to the recording " performers. Those audiophiles terms/characteristics of sound just does not exist in the nearfield MUSIC live events are only characteristics " invented by the AHEE and very far away from reality.
The ADC 26/27 as the very top LOMC cartridges are made it for true music lovers more than for " audiophiles ".
I think that in the 60’s the ADC 26/27 you can get fro no more than 80.00 and today can compete against 15K+ LOMC cartridges.
This all new experience through the ADC 26/27 bcartridges came in the best moment when I 'm more mature in all subjects with MUSIC and audio and when my room audio system is at its best with all the up-dates and up-grades I can afford bor the better.
As always your contributions in the thread all are welcomed and appreciated.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
Obviously that’s not easy to think " out of the box " because to do that we have to have a different kind of self attitude where between other things we must to forget for ever at least the 50% of all the information we learned through our audio life in the AHEE. With out that " forget " we just can’t do it.
This review is more than an usual audio item review for many reasons I will try to explain over the thread.
First I want to leave very clear my room/audio system main target: STAY TRUER TO THE RECORDING.
To achieve that we have to think that usually the recording microphones are positioned at very near field of the MUSIC sources even like in the 3 Blind Mice recordings: inside the instruments. Recording microphones are not " seated " at 20m-35m. from the source as usually we listen when attend to a live acoustical music event. So we have to have self experiences of live MUSIC seated at near field. If some of us do not have that kind experiences then is very dificult to understand what I’m talking about here and elsewhere.
OK, the ADC 26 cartridge is a vintage Induced Magnet invented motor design by Peter Pritchard ( that pass away. ), it’s not a MM or MI or MC kind of cartridge design. Here you can read about and on his patent and a little of his audio life history:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/peter-pritchard
The cartridge under review is this:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2ihw6yo.jpg
that is part of the ADC 25, 26 and 27 cartridge family.
This is the ADC 25:
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/download/file.php?id=31979
and this the ADC 27:
https://adelcom.net/ADC-adc%2027.JPG
and here the ADC 26 specs ( please take note those 15° stylus tip mounted angle. ):
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/adc/26.shtml
As you can see and read all seems very old and rudimentary with really humble cartridge specs ( nothing spectacular down there. ) where the elliptical stylus is: 0.03 x 0.07.
The ADC 25 red dot stylus ( exist the red blue 0.03 x 0.09 and the white dot. ) is similar to the 26 and the ADC 27 change is that is the same 26 stylus type but nude. I own all those models that comes with the same cartridge body but different color and where the cartridge motor in the 26 and 27 is similar and the cartridge differs only in the stylus and that the compliance instead 50 cu as in the 25 and 26 is " only " 40cu.
All these cartridges are my oldest ones ( comes from the 60’s. ) that I bougth years ago when started the very long MM Agon thread and I remember that I mentioned there the 25 and 26 but almost no one took cares about not even me because I really never gave it the enougth listening time to those cartridges and was only like a month ago that I really discovery this fenomenal, outstanding, astonishing and " perfect " performer.
When you listen it you are not listen as if was alike MM/MI/electrect cartridges but more as a live event/truer to the recording with some characteristics only shared for the best of the best LOMC cartridges.
I made my self developed evaluation proccess where I’m deep trained and is almost " bullet proof ".
The best MM/MI cartridge is with out doubt the AKG P100LE followed by Astatic MF-2500 and others as the JVC X1MK2 or the Technics EPC 100CMK4 but no one of them can even the quality performance levels of the ADC 26. The ADC is in a different league " the major league ".
I compared the 26/27 against the Colibri, Ortofon A95, Lyra Etna, My Sonic Labs Supereminent ( I think ? ? ) Dynavector XV-1s, Clearaudio Goldfinger and some other vintage top MC designs. No one of them beats overall the ADC 26.
The main 26 characteristics to beat belongs at both frequency extremes where if we want first rate quality performance there first condition is the transient response/attack of the music notes and develops of harmonics along the decay timing that’s where exist clear differences in between MC cartridges and all the other kind of designs. Nothing but the 26/27 compares with a top LOMC cartridges in those regards.
The transient response and fast timing decay in the low of the bass range is second to none and " mimic " what we can listen in a live event at nearfield position. With out this " sole " characteristic MUSIC as MUSIC just can’t exist and is here where belongs the MUSIC foundation.
At the other frequency extreme things are more of the bass range quality performance. In both frequency range it’s not only the rigthness of the transient response but the notes definition its very clear distinction in between and its harmonics. Exist no overhang or bold sound. At the high frequency range ( at the top. ) nothing can beats a Colibri 0.22mv output and the only contender for is precesily these ADC 26/27 ! !
As you can see the 26/27 specs says not very wide frequency range but when listen to it you can sware it goes from 5hz to over 100khz but the more important issue is the clear definition. When the timing in those frequency ranges are spot on then the overall MUSIC rythm is just spectacular and makes and moves all your feelings and body.
We all hear through all our body not only through our ears. We hear through the skin, bones, skind hair and millions of nervous terminations in the body and when you are listening to the ADC 26/27 all those have a true meaning as never before.
What about soundstage, layering, inner detail and the like: just very first rate. Tonal balance is outstanding nothing at the broad wide frequency range tells you " hey: I’m here ", exist a true coherence in between all frequency ranges.
Yes, it’s a UNIQUE listen experience a NEW listen experience coming from a very older cartridge and YES is the best Pritchard design and if you think that you already own the best cartridge ever you need to experience the ADC 26/27. I compared against the best out there in the same system with the same tonearms and same everything.
Was not only me but some other audiophiles friends where at least one of them is a music player. This one is a drummer/batery player and when he was at my place I run ( between other LPs. ) the Sheffield D2D with Ron Tutt and Jim Keltner great drummers with out telling him which cartridge was playing and my friend that’s a true expert with those instruments and golden ear by nature was " jaws dropping " and it’s because is incredible the TRUE of that kind of sound coming from the ADC’s
. This recording specially is something to listen through the 26/27 at 95db SPL with peaks in the 100db neigborhood, you can touch the sound and cut it with a sizzers ! ! !. It’s amazing.
The ADC never lost its aplomb no matters at what SPL you are listening from 70db to over 95dbs .
Every single good recording " sings " as never before of all what I experienced in my system and several other top audio systems.
One of the best MUSIC LP for testing any audio item is the Telarc 1812 and not because the cannon shots but overall frequency ranges that’s always a challenge for any cartridge andd for any audio system in other frequency ranges than the bass range.
No one of the other top LOMC cartridges can even overall the ADC 26/27 quality performance levels in this LP recording in all the frequency range other than the very low bass where the ADC beats to all of them.
I running the ADC 26 at 1.1grs and due ot its very high compliance ( 50cu. ) and cartridge body design is a very low rider when the 27 is only a low rider.
As with other top LOMC cartridges the alignment set up is critical but with the ADC 26 we have to do it with the best accuracy we can and with the VTA/SRA tiny/sligthly up at the tonearm bearing. This VTA/SRA is critical and as always not only depends of the accuracy overall set up but room system dependent.
That explosiveness, power, dynamics, transient response, thightness, flow, true tonal balance agresiveness, natural brigthness, rythm that usually exist only in a live MUSIC event with the ADC 26/27 you can feel that never was in your home audio system as nearer as with these ADC cartridges.
Those audiophiles terms as: lush, organic, color, smothness, bold, and the like does not exist through these " truer to the recording " performers. Those audiophiles terms/characteristics of sound just does not exist in the nearfield MUSIC live events are only characteristics " invented by the AHEE and very far away from reality.
The ADC 26/27 as the very top LOMC cartridges are made it for true music lovers more than for " audiophiles ".
I think that in the 60’s the ADC 26/27 you can get fro no more than 80.00 and today can compete against 15K+ LOMC cartridges.
This all new experience through the ADC 26/27 bcartridges came in the best moment when I 'm more mature in all subjects with MUSIC and audio and when my room audio system is at its best with all the up-dates and up-grades I can afford bor the better.
As always your contributions in the thread all are welcomed and appreciated.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
177 responses Add your response
Dear @secretguy : I own the Dimensiopn 5 as other Pritchard designs including the ZLM/Astrion and the like. By the time I posted this thread I had first hand experiences with " thousands " of vintage MM/MI cartridges and several LOMC cartridges and those first hand experiences were through my self bullet proof whole evaluation proccess in a high resolution room/system. My main target is to be nearer to the recording as I can and in that scenario the 26/27 puts me nearer than any of the Sonus and other cartridges out there and I don't know if he 10EMK4 can do it or not because I don't own it and I'm not willing to start the " hunt " for it. In any audio item evaluation we have to remember that the results has a direct an intrisecal relationship with the person that did or do the audio item evaluation tests. Different persons can have different targets and preferences. Btw, thank's @wolfie62 for your post around the 10E, really interesting . Even that I don't have in mind to chase it if in the future I find out then will be welcomed.
R. |
I wonder if the chakster who appears in this thread is the same chakster that appears in AudioKarma? Selling your ADC 26 in here was your mistake. You need a bigger audience, more exposure. You’d sell it quickly on eBay, with a reserve price. Folks from Vinyl Engine, AudioKarma, Steve Hoffman, Lenco Heaven, etc., who know great vintage cartridges, monitor eBay items and pass on the listing to others who are looking for one. |
Very curious! I listed one of my ADC 26 with brand new stylus on A'gon for longer than one year but got no offer whatever. I mean ''curious for the best cart ever''. The added problem is to find ADC 10E- 4. which is even better. Not to make logical error ( Peter is the longest guy in the class but Chakster is even longer) I mean ''according to wolfie '' and not according to Raul (grin). |
I read through this thread with some interest, and a lot of experience with ADC cartridges. while I no longer have the ADC 1 (MM),I have ADC carts representing every generation until the demise of ADC/BSR in 1985. I have the 1963 ADC Point 4 with original NOS nude 0.4 mil conical, and the 1964 elliptical stylus, 1963 660/770, 1966 10E MKII, 1968 25/26/27, 1969 10E MKIV, 1970 220XE, 1972 Q36 and K7E, 1971 XLM, 1980 QLM 36/34/32/30 MKIII, 1980 Integra XLM III and Integra ST XLM III, VLM, ZLM MKIII, 1981 Astrion, 1983 TRX-2, PSX 30 and 40. What’s missing in this thread is that there is a better ADC cartridge than the 25/26/27. While I agree with what was said about the ADC 26/27 in this thread, there is one better. It’s overlooked. It’s overshadowed by the XLM that debuted only 1.5 years later. So imagine if you will all the things stated about the ADC 26, only better! Peter Pritchard developed a major improvement to the damping of the armature, and improved the poles of the ADC cartridges in 1969. He was looking for a better way to control the cantilever and armature of his cartridges besides just the suspension block. Other cartridge designers/manufacturers used a tie wire to assist the suspension in controlling the cantilever; think Empire, Shure, Pickering and Stanton. The tie wire acted as a spring for quick return of the cantilever to neutral position, which gives you your fast/deep bass. The suspension block damps resonance and keeps the cantilever properly positioned. But the ADC cantilevers used only the butyl rubber suspension block for both spring return AND damping. Peter Pritchard wanted better damping, without a tie wire, and he was getting everything he could from the existing suspension; but tests showed he needed just a little more damping; yet, he wanted to keep the high compliance he had achieved. The high compliance suspension and better damping were at odds with each other. Pritchard then designed “electro-mechanical damping”. He designed a metal “yoke” that surrounds the 4 pole tabs, in a diamond pattern, with a hole between them. This allows eddy currents between the poles to act on the round/hollow armature, applying a magnetic damping force on the cantilever to add control that the suspension can’t do by itself. The first appearance of this is in the 1969 10E MKIV. Only a year after the 25/26/27 cartridges. The electro-mechanical damper was used on ALL subsequent cartridges with the 10E-4 (MKIV), 550X, and XLM all the way through the Astrion. The 10E-4 came with a bonded elliptical stylus, so as not to compete directly with the nude ellipticals of the 25/26/27. Despite the heavier tip, the 10E-4 has a sound rivaling the previous nudes, owing to the added damping of the cantilever. But I did say “rival,” not best. The styli of the 25/26/27 and 10E-IV are identical in every way, including the suspension, excepting the bonded R-15E stylus of the 10E-4. Colors of the grips are different: Black for R-25(1) and 10E-4; white and gold for R-26, beige for R-27. Cantilevers are identical, as are the armature barrels and suspensions. Where the 10E-4 BESTS the others is when you replace its bonded R-15E stylus with the nude 25/26/27 stylus!! You’ll get a truly AMAZING stylus+cartridge combination!! Comparing the ADC-25 or 26 to the 10E-4, it’s like a new level of clarity, focus, and texture is achieved. The others are “veiled” in comparison to the 10E-4. Cymbals sound metallic and shimmer without blurring. A certain amount of distortion is present in the 25/26/27; gone in the 10E-4. Very wide, deep imaging. Fast, explosive bass and transients. I also prefer the 10E-4 (with nude elliptical styli) over the XLM, ZLM. It has a certain texture and liveliness they can’t quite match. The cantilevers are extremely short, light but stiff; I have yet to hear an MC cart that can best the 10E-4. |
I paid over $800 for my ATN180 stylus (sealed), just for the stylus, for AT-ML180 cartridge, but this is one of the best MM ever and the cantilever is "special", two versions made: hollow pipe beryllium and hollow pipe boron. Both gold-plated, both with MicroLine stylus. Extremely low moving mass! EDR9 is popular here, not expensive, it’s $300 cartridge |
Dear chakster, also ''exotic'' MM's are MM's. I am sure that you will have no problem if, say, AT 170-180 styli will cost even more than$500 (grin). Our Mexican friend (the fast one) mentioned ''edr 9''. I never succeed to get one when this one was ''cart of the month''. This means an ''rare animal''. Those are never cheap. BTW this ''speedy Gonzales'' was faster than I while it was I who discovered the source for 26/27 styli. He is obviously more modest than his other compatriot (grin). |
I,ve seen people asking up to 500 dlls for replacements for the empire edr9, which is way too much. Any stylus replacement with aluminum cantilever at that price is a rip-off! You can buy a whole new cartridge at this price. 500 is a price tag for some very rare replacement styli for MM cartridges with exotic cantilevers like beryllium, titanium, boron ... and advanced profiles. |
@nandric Yes i,m nowhere as fast as Speedy Gonzalez, actually a little bit more to the side of Lento Rodriguez (speedy,s best friend). However I just assured a R27 replacement for myself which is going to be shipped to my friend in NY. I asume Alan at Bluz Broz has still several samples because the price is quite fair for a replacement of this pedigree and he assured me that they are genuine ADC. I,ve seen people asking up to 500 dlls for replacements for the empire edr9, which is way too much. Thanks again for the advice, Cheers |
Anyway your beloved TRX can also be retipped with boron+ @nandric Me? I never retip cartridges. The ADC sapphire cantilever and its special Vital III diamond is very nice, my sample is for sale (NOS), i need cash to survive in covid-19 world. Dear chakster, your pictures are much better than my description. I use macro lens this is why we can see something on my images. If someone would like to pay $500 to refurbish MM/MI cartridge i have to say this is equal or very close to the price of a brand new better cartridge (NOS) with advanced cantilever and stylus, but original. In my opinion not worth it. |
Dear cardani, we are moving very fast with our discoveries. I just discovered that ADC 26/27 can be retipped but ,if possible, for about $500 . Then I discovered original (?) styli for much less. I already asked my (forum) brother Don to check and buy for me the 27 stylus if available. I see that you are even faster. As far as I know nobody is faster than speedy Gonzales (grin). Not to stay behind Mexico's import duty I arranged with my brother Don that he should pay Bluz Broz for me and post the stylus as present to his brother. No import duty at all. |
¨If I remember well there was distrust in our forum against ''Bluz Broz'' styli provider. But I found on their site ADC 26 for $123 and 27 for $126. Difficult for me in Holland and you in Mexico to judge but our ''American friends'' can provide the needed info. I hope that import duty in Mexico is lower then in Holland (33%). The problem of ''stylus only'' retip by ADC is that those styli are ''pressure fitted'' @nandric Thanks a lot for the tip of Bluz Broz, crossing fingers it could be ADC original replacements. Yes Import duty in Mexico is 16% on any package between 50 to 1000 dlls., but the regular mail service here is incredibly slow, packages can delay up to 4 months, |
Dear chakster, your pictures are much better than my description. I also own two sample of TRX II one with Berillium the other with saphire cantilever. Both are in excellent condition so no reason for me to inspect their construction. But the old ADC's have such small cantilevers that one can't see or assume ''double'' tubes. There are btw no theory free assumption nor experiments. Because I assumed one piece cantilever I needed ''place'' for iron part of the construction. As in some other samples piece of iron is put in the back side of the cantilever . That is why I though to make you happy with hollow boron cantilevers . Where else could be this IRON ''ingredient '' be put? Anyway your beloved TRX can also be retipped with boron+ micro ridge stylus. What more do you want ? |
Boron cantilever+ micro ridge stylus for the ADC 26? @nandric Let me illustrate what you’re talking about, later ADC TRX cantilever construction is the same: aluminum collar and sapphire cantilever ... click HERE for high resolution close up image of my trx II. ...and low quality image from the manual here |
An possible important discovery. I inspected my both 26 styli with my (hand) microscope.. To my big surprise I have seen similar ''construction'' like by MC's. The aluminum cantilever with the stylus is installed in the ''pipe'' behind which may be the iron part of the construction. It is like ''joint pipe'' by MC kinds. If the cantilever can be removed from the ''pipe'' behind than, like by MC carts, an new cantilever /stylus combo can be glued (?) back in the pipe behind. So even an boron rode can be installed this way. The parts involved are very small so only an good retiper can answer the question if this ''surgery'' is possible. |
cardani, If I remember well there was distrust in our forum against ''Bluz Broz'' styli provider. But I found on their site ADC 26 for $123 and 27 for $126. Difficult for me in Holland and you in Mexico to judge but our ''American friends'' can provide the needed info. I hope that import duty in Mexico is lower then in Holland (33%). The problem of ''stylus only'' retip by ADC is that those styli are ''pressure fitted'', No idea how those can be removed . All other are glued in te cantilever so those can be removed with solvent like old cantilevers from the ''joint pipe''. One can see by all retipped MC carts that new cntilever is glued in the ''aluminum tube'' (aka ''joint pipe'') behind the new cantilever. Those can't be glued in if the old can't be removed. |
@nandric Well that option that you mention or just changing the stylus for a micro ridge or line contact and keeping the old aluminum cantilever which from what I heard is harder and more costly to do. Well by suspension I mean change the rubber or tune it up or whatever is called in a moving iron or induced magnet. Anyhow, I will take it easy since right now I,m just enjoying it, If i send it out it would be a long way from now since i I have other cartridges to rotate. Kind regards, |
@nandric ,Yes keeping the aluminum cantilever and just putting a modern stylus profile could be an option, i have no prejudice against aluminum. But ultimately have the retipper give me different options once its on his table. Also because of its age most likely a suspension rebuild will be necessary. in the meanwhile i,m using it as it is and have not heard any signs of wear or malfunction. Sending it to a retipper will be long term project. Regards, |
@rauliruegas Thank you for your kind words. The main problem i had trying to get good sound from the ADC for over a month was because I had the leads misconnected, as you know this cartridge connects the four pins in a different arrangement from the standard. It was not until I read the manual and noticed this difference ...very stupid mistake ...mea culpa. After rectifing this I have being enjoying very much this cartridge.. yes as you say it sounds more like a good MC but very neutral. Saludos! |
Dear @cardani : Thank’s to share your playback videos and good to know that everything is ok with because I remember the " problems " when you began its set up. Not an easy cartridge for set up and I mean a set up where the cartridge can shows at its best. For other Agoner’s cardani is a gentleman that lives in my country México but in a different city that where I live. He and his wife are double-bass active players in the Xalapa Symphonic Orchestra so first than all he is a MUSIC lover that like to enjoy MUSIC in his home. He knew and listened the 26 at my place in one of his trips to México city and due that I owned two26/27 samples with in good condition stylus I sold to him one of those samples. Btw, before you bougth the 26/27 my idea was to send one sample to a re-tipper looking not only for a today stylus shape but boron cantilever and I still think about with the sample I own due to its great quality performance an extraordinary cartridge motor: unique for say the least. VdH can do for me. I listened to my over 100 cartridges but always come back to the 26/27 unit. It’s the only MM/MI cartridge that really does not performs or has the sound signature of MM/MI cartridges, it’s a lot more in the LOMC top models side. For me even today still is a fenomenal discovery and came from the early 60’s. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Cardani, As J. Carr explained the advantage of an aluminum cantilever is that the stylus can be pressure fitted in. To retip my 26 would mean gluing an stylus instead. This is done by cutting the existing cantilever and than gluing the new one on the restant of the old cantilever. I have done this once but never again. Besides the suspension is very difficult to fix on those ADC's . I have seen new 25 for $100 but will try to get an 26 or 27. |
@nandric Yes I think is the way to go the 27 stylus is already around 35or 40 cu, probably the 25 is around 50cu, very high. What i would probably do when this stylus wears out is just send it to a rettiper and have him put something better like microline, the 27 is just nude elliptical with aluminum cantilever. Finding 26 or 27 replacements i,m sure won,t be easy. |
Just want to share with you a couple needle drops of my youtube channel of the ADC26-27 which i got from Raul a few months ago. https://youtu.be/2R6IWvjVWIk https://youtu.be/P933hdDtbQU Hope you like them and forgive my audio video amateur skills. This were done directly from the phono preamp to a Tascam sd20m (not from the speakers to avoid the room acoustics interaction) recorder and then uploaded through the imovie app on my phone. |
Dear @wolfie62 : The 10E as the 220 and 26 shares same kind of design including cartridge body shape but are not the same. At specs level the 10E is better than the 220 and the 26 best specs than the 10E. The review here is the 26 with the 27 stylus that's the nude elliptical one. As a fact the 10E came out/ was marketed just before the 26 that in theory is an improvement on the 10E. I can't speak on the 10E because I never listened to it, so for me the best down there is the 26/27. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
@lewm Chakster uses a Reed 3P tonearm, 12 inches in length, made of Cocobolo. He has apparently mounted more than one high compliance cartridge on that tonearm which would have an effective mass at least equal to that of an FR 64S, or maybe even an FR 66S. So de facto he has done the experiment. At the moment i have 4 arms on my 2 turntables in the main system: FR-64fx with FR-7fz LOMC Victor UA-7082 (long) with Sony XL-55 MM SONY PUA-7 with Ortofon MC-2000 LOMC Lustre GST-801 Silver Wire has been tested with FR PMC-3 LOMC and now free of cartridge, will add my Piconeer PC-1000 mkII back soon. Normally Lustre and Victor are the arms where i can use MM/MI Waiting my audition: FR-64s with B-60 base (where i’m gonna use my Miyabi MCA) Denon DA-401 for all my High-compliance MM like Grace Technics EPA-100 which i’ve bought again last month (also for MM) Something that i can’t use on my Luxman PD-444: Technics EPA-100 mkII (must be on Victor TT-101 if i will fix that TT) Something that i have not used on Luxman PD-444 yet: Reed 3P "12 Cocobolo (it was my reference on Technics SP-10mkII) and it was fantastic with Glanz 61, Victor X-1II, Stanton 980 etc, AT-ML180 etc. BUT the effective mass of reed is 18g (without cartridge mass and screws). |
Dear @lewm : Certainly you have a misunderstood on the FR64S/Reed effective mass because are way different by a wide margin: Reed depending the wood/headshell models goes maximum at around 26 and normally around 22grs. where the 64S has 35grs. Here what Fleib posted in the MM thread: """ fleib VE has FR64S listed as 35g eff mass. I've heard the arm sound great with some moderate cu carts, but I wonder about high cu. It could be no change using a high quality arm 1/5 the mass, but I suspect otherwise. Eff mass is the same as MOI (moment of inertia) and even with low bearing friction the mass seems to slow down response and make it sound different. What might be authoritative with one cart might sound thick with another? I think Raul was right concerning low frequency resonance, but that's not the only consideration. Peter Pritchard advocated 6.5Hz. Maybe this was for his 50cu carts, but the Sonus arm has 4.1g eff mass. MOI is extremely low. Hard to imagine how extreme mass wouldn't make a difference. "" of course it makes a difference and not for the better. That we like it does not means: " for the better." Mr. Ikeda designed his FR64/66 tonearms thinking in his low cu and heavy LOMC cartridges he designed and never had in mind been coupled with 30 cu to 50 cu. Again, can work: so what?. I tested several MMs with my SAEC 506 very high effective mass: only its headshell weigth is 18grs. and is a long tonearm as the 66: go figure, and with not dry grease at SAEC bearings as FRs. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Halcro, with regard to your message to Chakster I think I read that Chakster uses a Reed 3P tonearm, 12 inches in length, made of Cocobolo. He has apparently mounted more than one high compliance cartridge on that tonearm which would have an effective mass at least equal to that of an FR 64S, or maybe even an FR 66S. So de facto he has done the experiment. |
@chakster I changed the diamond including cantilever, sorry if I described not in the right way. For sure the stylus shape was fine and modern in the 60s. But even if I get another cantilever with a "state of the art" stylusshape it will be much cheaper the a Grace or something else (I bought my ADC a few years ago for about 50 €). I all ready own 3 F-9s. In my opinion the generator is very good (but heavy). I hope the ADC would benefit a lot. You are right. It is a little bit of a shame ADC and Sonus didn´t go the Grace route with a lot of different stylus. Not only as upgrade but also as a perfect match to your own listening routine. But it is like it is. I am sorry, I know these tonearms but never tried them myself. The ADC was good on the 1210, but is much better with the right tonearm match. At the moment I don´t know where the prices are. Haven´t seen one or a longer time. But I am sure you could find a bargain. Think the ADC 25 was produce in not too low numbers. These new "Grace" artridges look nice, but they are way out of my budget. @stringreen the failing of suspension is a common problem with the later ADC. Not with every stylus but can happen. I also had an XLM and ZLM (also very nice for vocal jazz etc.) with the same prob. Other XLMs and ZLMs I own don´t have the prob. |
@lewm it was J.Carr you has mentioned this new cartridge on our forum first, it was last year if i remember correct. Being a Grace fan i’m pround the ex Grace engineer invented this brand new cartridge. The name is TOP WING and they made two models, this is another model TOP WING Suzaku (Red Sparrow)
http://topwing.jp/RedSparrow-en.html
|
@adc-grace
Yesterday I did a little try. Had a look on one of my ADC 25 styli and a Sonus Gold Styli (Pathemax diamond). So I changed the ADC cantilever with the Sonus cantilever. It fits. Perhaps not perfect, but enough to get an impression how the ADC works with a sharper diamond. What should I say? Yes it is better than the original diamond. Sure, then why not to change the cantilever? So I will do the same as Raul. Try to get a modern diamond from a good retip service. It's optional, but if you agree that stylus does matter, i hope you agree that cantilever does matter too. Then summarise the cost of the High-End cantilever and High-End Stylus you're getting closer to the price of the completely different vintage cartridge with those types of cantilever and stylus already installed by original designer somewhere in the 80s. For example Grace products, if you will change just the stylus on your Grace you will upgrade the cartridge/sound. They made Boron/MicroRidge and Beryllium/MicroRidge, they are all high compliance. There is a HUGE difference between Aluminum/Elliptical and Boron/MicroRidge styli made by Grace (in my experience). So this brand's designers were smart enough to make many different styli (different cantilevers and diamonds) for their customers who would like to upgrade, so they don't need to retip or refurbish their carts with third-party vendors. Unfortunately ADC and its "genious" designer does not offer such option for his customers, no wonder why, because his ADC 26 was designed back in the 60s, when they can not even dream about Hi-Fi cartridges that appeared on the market only in the 70's and reached Ultra High-End quality only in the 80's. So the story about 60's ADC MI remind me a story about 60's Denon 103 MC. Owners are happy to invest more in their 60's cartridges instead of investing in the proper cartridges made with better styli/cantilevers a bit later in the 70's. There are many, but i'm not sure how many did you tried? The ADC 25 couldn´t be that good etc....This is no expensive cartridge. If you own a lightweight tonearm just try it! You will be impressed for sure.But I also understand you. Couldn´t believe it too a few years ago. Tried it, but only on an Technics SL1210. It was good, but the tonearm didn´t match the cartridge. Now on the light tonearm it is just wonderful. I;m surious what do you think about Denon DA-401 toneam for High-Compliance cartridges? Or Technics EPA-100 and EPA-100 mkII toneamrs for High Compliance cartridges ? Or Victor UA-7045 toneam? To my surprice some of the a'gon members are happy to use high Compliance MM even on Fidelity-Research FR64s high mass tonearm. I have the arm, but i haven't tried any MM on it yet. P.S. Where is ADC MI today ? But this is a brand new Coreless Straight-Flux Cartridge from ex Grace engineer, interesting one (for $12 000). |
@nandric
Good point, i think this is the reason why the OP promotes so high his cheap ADC in this thread while in another thread he post a comment that he acccept offers, comparing his cheap ADC to some very expensive LOMC. But it’s absurd because we are all knew that he prefer LOMC nowadays, not MM/MI like it was decades ago. A person who always contradict to himself: -Years ago he was fighting people for superiority of MM/MI over LOMC -Later the same person claimed it was a mistake and he has learned that LOMC are so much better. -And finally posted this review claiming the cheapest $200 MI ADC 25/27 is equal to his best of the best LOMC (and for this reason he’s selling this gem, his new discovery). Can you believe it ? I assume that he was right years ago about superiority of MI over MC, but why later he start posting in his own MM thread that LOMC are better ? Would anyone trust a reviewer who became a seller and selling products from his own review ? This tactic is so bizarre. Not sure who is his target audience here? P.S. Of cource we’re all have too many cartridges and we’re are all selling some of them from time to time, but the way we’re doing it is so different compared to a Mexican way. The prices for some vintage cartridge goes up because of the market demands and rarity. The review can rise up a demand, but can’t rise up the rarity. Also price statistic can not be deleted from the internet, no matter how much our Mexical can ask for his "gem" pretending not to be a seller. |
I totally agree with my brother chakster that the primary function of our forum is exchange of information. I am also(?) multi- lingual and able to follow many international sites. One of the ''richest'' is the German ''audio-markt.de''. The most cartridge offerings are MC kinds (10 pages). The MM kinds are much more ''modest'' but I have just seen offering of ADC 25 styli for 199 euro. The plural means all 3. I understand confusion and different valuation of cart prices but my ''speculation'' is based on ''old MM thread'' . Each cart of the month sky rocketed in price after Raul's recommendation. I hope the same because I own this precious ADC 26. Something like saying: ''history repeat itself'' (grin). Sorry my brother (grin). |
@rauliruegas Yesterday I did a little try. Had a look on one of my ADC 25 styli and a Sonus Gold Styli (Pathemax diamond). So I changed the ADC cantilever with the Sonus cantilever. It fits. Perhaps not perfect, but enough to get an impression how the ADC works with a sharper diamond. What should I say? Yes it is better than the original diamond. So I will do the same as Raul. Try to get a modern diamond from a good retip service. About the thoughts of some here. The ADC 25 couldn´t be that good etc.... This is no expensive cartridge. If you own a lightweight tonearm just try it! You will be impressed for sure. But I also understand you. Couldn´t believe it too a few years ago. Tried it, but only on an Technics SL1210. It was good, but the tonearm didn´t match the cartridge. Now on the light tonearm it is just wonderful. Cheers |
@lewm Chakster, but who are you to declare what is the value of this or that cartridge or tonearm? I do not declare value myself, i just search statistics of sales in the internet and anyone can do that if a person know how to use internet. I have also published a valid japanese source with the actual price from the 60s and 70s for certain cartridges including ADS 26 before you have posted that you don't know when this cartridge was released. Do you read my posts? I have a bunch of rare cartridges because i search for them everyday anywhere in the world and i know the market value pretty well. Each of my post actually contains a useful links, maybe you never checked them and someone always complain to the moderator for some reason, asking to remove my post with links for ADS sales for very low price. Guess who was that person and why he did it? Also i believe the mention of the prices on the public forum can only HELP users not to be ripped-off. If you need ADC 26 just buy from Raul, i think you have no problem with that. The one for 175 Euro (ADC 26 in the box) from Netherlands here you have just missed, sorry. See how fast my post will be removed with no reason . |