They are in the $400.00 range for each at this time for 8ft. |
Transparent Audio Laboratory MusicWave - I looked them up and I can't imagine a pure copper speaker cable with gold-plated terminations as being 'bright". Most likely, it was your Krell. The lower end Krell equipment can be bright/thin sounding due to undersized power supply (in my opinion). The high end stuff (top-level preamp and amps) do not suffer from this bright/thin edge.
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As I mentioned the Krell S1500 & S1000 multi channel. I did found it to be a bit bright on some recordings, maybe synergy. The question is would I benefit from these cables with the Verity’s? |
Maguiar,
Yes for sure it’s all about synergy. The more I spend time with the Luxman, the more I am appreciating it. As Caphill mentioned cables are very important, both component and speaker/interconnect cable synergy.
I just changed my analog interconnects between DAC and integrated and my system became balanced, at least to me. Before I felt it was a bit flat and lacked soundstage and depth. Then again, this is probably because the Luxman and my AQ Thunderbird Zero speakers cables are very transparent. With my prior McIntosh amp I didn’t hear as much of a difference between different interconnects.
In home demo for any component is the preferred path if possible. Nothing beats hearing it in your own environment.
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Yup, The S1500 amp is the low end amps. And I have found that all their processors are excellently designed except for an undersized power supply. Yeah, the Transparent speaker cable are likely to be just fine unless you wanted a brighter or higher resolution speaker cable.
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I would like to replace all my interconnect cables, any suggestions here?
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@maguiar
Transparent makes awesome cables. Stick with Transparent and if you want to upgrade just move up the Transparent line. Shunyata Research also makes excellent cables. I prefer them (both Transparent & Shunyata) over Audioquest. Nordost, Kimber Cable, Chord Cables, WireWorld also make great quality cables.
Shunyata & Transparent are usually smoother and tonally on the warmer side, especially the Shunyata.
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Thanks to all and will get back with my purchases........ |
Maguiar,
There are many great interconnects and most people have different preferences. To give an example @caphill likes Shunyata, which are great cables, others I know say they think their interconnects sound dull. Same goes for all the manufacturers. It's all about preference and synergy.
I like AudioQuest myself, recently moved up to the WEL interconnect and it changed the entire characteristic of my system. Has to be the most balanced and natural cable I have heard. Switching from Earth (copper) or Fires (mid-level silver) to the WELs was like going from digital to analog. First time I have ever had a single component make so much of a difference. Though it's hard to demo these cables since retail is so high, it takes patience to find them on the used market at a decent price.
I haven't heard WireWorld but it comes highly recommend form many, especially their Platinum Eclipse 8. I am considering getting a pair at some point to try out.
Nordost are great, though I felt their low-to-mid level v1 cables were a bit thin sounding in my system, though moving up the line balances things more. Their new v2 versions I have been told are more balanced. Cost is probably on the higher side as far as cables go.
Would agree with caphill, if you are sticking with Transparent speaker cables then maybe start with their interconnects. Helps also to start somewhere so you have a basis to compare other manufacturers down the road unless you can demo different cables at home. |
As usual, I always recommend cables that use solid-core conductors because my testing has shown these are superior with a more natural and solid sound (no pun intended). As far as I know, Audioquest typically uses 21awg solid-core conductors in all their interconnects. It's a great option for a manufactured cable.
Wire World is also an excellent option. I have heard the Wire World Eclipse XLR cable in my system and it is a very neutral and natural sounding cable. It is just a tiny bit laid back (but only in comparison to my reference hand-made OCC copper Furutech Rhodium XLR). You can always go to the silver-clad "Silver Eclipse" model if you want a silver-clad cable that is faster and higher resolution.
Also, I always recommend adding silver elements ONE AT A TIME in a system. Even though many people recommend silver, it is very easy to go over that line with too much silver and all of a sudden you have a system that sounds artificial and is not as engaging.
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@eziggy
@maguiar
I like both Transparent cables and Shunyata, but I prefer Transparent cables especially for both of my dedicated reference two-channel setups/systems and found that they are better choices for my reference two-channel setup/system and have great synergy with all my 2ch equipments. So In both of my dedicated reference stereo setups/systems I’m using all Transparent cablings : Transparent Magnum Opus (last gen) speaker cables, XLR interconnects, power cables and phono cables for my turntable. For digital cables I’m using a combination of Transparent Ref XL & Premium. But for AC power products I’m using Shunyata Research Hydra Typhon QR / Triton combo for both of my dedicated reference stereo setups / systems.
However, for my dedicated reference home theater room (setup) I’m using all Shunyata Research Sigma cablings (speaker cables for front LCR & surrounds, XLR analog interconnects, power cables) and Shunyata Delta speaker wires for my in-ceiling Atmos speakers and found them to be a better match for my dedicated HT gears.
For HDMI cables I’m using a Nordost Valhalla 2 HDMI and a Transparent Premium HDMI.
For AC power product for this dedicated theater setup room I’m using 2 Audioquest Niagara 7000.
I agree with auxinput’s comment to get cables that use solid core conductors.
Maguiar, you will also need to take care of your AC line for your hifi electronics. You should get a dedicated and upgraded AC line for your hifi electronics to make sure you have a clean incoming AC line, and get a good quality AC power product. Shunyata & Audioquest Niagara are among the good ones eg Shunyata Hydra or Denali products as well as Audioquest Niagara 7000 or 5000.
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Caphill,
What do you think about the Furman for AC power? I was informed it is a very good product for the money and has good reviews. I was considering the Niagara 5000 but only if I can get a good deal on it.
To me personally I believe the AC power product is even more important than overly priced interconnects. I am not going cheap on cables but I cannot go into thousands of dollars for cables. I am going to give my Transparent musicwave speaker cables a shot and find something reasonable for my interconnects.
I actually did a test once and switched out the Transparent cables for cables that were sold by the foot and never heard a difference. I am looking for something reasonable that makes sense to me. |
Eziggy,
What is the price range for AudioQuest?
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I guess I’ll start another thread for cabling at some point if there isn’t one for a broader scope on the topic at some point.
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@maguiar
Overall I found Transparent cables better than Audioquest but would generally cost lot more than Audioquest. All Transparent, Audioquest, Shunyata Research, Kimber Cable, Nordost, etc come with wide price ranges starting from couple hundred dollars to tens of thousands of dollars. For example, Transparent Wave speaker cables, which is an entry level, retail for $250 to $300 per 10 foot pair whereas the Transparent Magnum Opus speaker cables cost at least $65k per 10 foot pair.
Shunyata Research also makes outstanding cables and AC power products but are very pricey. Shunyata products are also used by many professional advance mastering or recording studios eg Abbey Road studios, etc. Lot of hospitals also use Shunyata AC power products for their highly sensitive medical equipments.
Furman AC power products are good but I think the Audioquest Niagara and Shunyata Denali or Hydra power products are better than Furman IMO.
PS Audio also makes excellent AC power products. There are countless other options out there. |
maguiar,
@caphill is spot on, there are ranges in AQ much like all cables. Choosing manufacturer and line comes with demoing and preference, more important how one cable works in one system but not well another no matter what the price.
There are so many different threads on cables and so many schools of thought. People have different opinions. I can only speak to what I have heard personally and analog interconnects/speaker cables make a fairly noticeable impact in my system. I recently did some cable comparisons with non-audiophile friends and they heard the difference immediately, enough where there was a discussion on pros on cons.
I definitely agree with @auxinput's recommandations on solid core conductors. For AQ, I would recommend the copper Water or even better Earth. Preowned you can find on the marketplace ~$300-$600. If you need more resolution, then silver but pricing goes up 2-3x across manufacturers.
I own a Furman IT-Reference 15i and think it's great. Though I haven't gotten into the power side as deeply as speaker/interconnect cables.
At some point I want to demo the AQ Niagara and Shunyata products. Almost everyone I have spoken to who has tried them really liked them both. Furman shouldn't be too bad in comparison since their lead design, Garth Powell, left to join AQ a little while back. He designed the Niagara power products, cables, and recently helped in the design of the new line of speaker cables. The AQ Thunderbird Zero speaker cables I own are the most resolving copper cables I have heard.
My recommendation is build out a balanced system and not focus on just one area. From my experience, it all makes a difference.
@caphill, do you run your amps through conditioners or directly to wall? Some manufacturers recommend going directly to the wall, but I imagine with the higher end Shunyata and AQ conditioners it could be beneficial. |
One really good option if you want a "pure silver" cable is the Audio Sensibility "Signature Silver" interconnects. It uses all OCC solid-core silver conductors (20/22/24 awg sizes). I used to run these in my system before I went to all copper. It is in Canada and lists CAD prices. A 1 meter XLR pair would be about $1,000 USD. For the money, I don't think you can get a better "pure silver" cable.
However, I would not recommend their Statement and Impact lines because they do not use solid-core conductors. Their Impact line actually sound pretty crappy (even though it uses OCC copper). I have tested that in my system.
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@eziggy
To answer your question, it depends on your amps and whether or not your AC line & wall outlet(s) have been upgraded or not. If your amps aren’t high current amps and don’t consume that much you can plug it to your Furman. What kind of amp(s) do you have?
In one of my dedicated reference stereo setup I have a pair of Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps and these are very high current amps so they are plugged directly to the wall but I have dedicated lines and all the lines and wall outlets & circuit breakers in my listening rooms have been upgraded to much higher amperage and using high quality and upgraded witings, higher grade circuit breakers, etc, etc. So only my Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps that are plugged directly to the wall since these amps can burst into 6KW (6000 watts) into 1 ohm per channel, and the rest of my gears are plugged to my Shunyata Hydra Typhon NR Triton combo products. The toroidal transformer power supply of these amps are about the size of a Mini Cooper wheel and the amp has the largest power supply capacitors you will ever see. Each amp (each channel) weighs about 235 pounds per channel.
In my other reference stereo setup I have 2 pairs of Audio Research Reference 750 SE vacuum tube monoblock amps both-amping the Sonus Faber Aida ll speakers and these amps are plugged directly to the wall since these are also very high current amps and the rest of the equipments are plugged to the Shunyata Hydra Typhon QR Triton combo products. Been major works done with all the AC lines and wall outlets in this listening room too.
But in my dedicated reference theater room I have 2 AQ Niagara 7000 power products. Everything are plugged to them except my 2 JL Audio Gotham subwoofers that are plugged directly to the wall. All my big Classe Delta series class AB amps are plugged to the two AQ Niagara 7000. I have 3 big Classe Delta CAM600 class AB monoblock amps driving my front LCR speakers, 2 Classe Delta CA-2300 class AB stereo amps driving my surround speakers and an NAD M27 seven-channel amp driving my 6 height ceiling speakers for Dolby Atmos setup. So everything including the preamp processor, Oppo 205 player are plugged to two AQ Niagara 7000.
All the AC lines and wall outlets circuit breakers have been worked on. |
Thanks @Cahill,
Appreciate the overview, very helpful. You have some amazing setups! Sounds like you have done some great work with your AC lines.
I currently have the Luxman 509X integrated. It’s plugged into the wall right now, but may go through the Furman at some point to compare. Prior to this I had the McIntosh MC452 and that was direct to the wall.
Those Naim monoblocks are insane and have some serious power!
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The Accuphase has good reviews but I don’t think I have where to audition it in Florida. Ivan from Legend Audio Video in Florida has the entire line of Accuphase. Check out the Audio Afficionado Forum which is hosted by Ivan... |
Best processor I've heard for either multi or 2 channel listening to date is hands down the Acurus Act 4. Absolutely superb! At least in my listening environment.
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@eziggy
You can plug your Luxman integrated to your Furman.
In regards to your comment on these Naim Statement NAP S1 monoblock amps, not only the power reserves it has that impressed me, but most importantly that impressed me most is their musicality, subtlety, dynamics, etc. Paired with the Naim Statement NAC S1 linestage analog stereo preamp and highly capable or other cost-no-object design front end source components (both digital & analog) you are treated with absolute best musicality, rhtym, etc and these Naim Statement gears (preamp & monoblock amps) are best at conveying the emotional expressions of the artists/musicians, assuming you have highly capable front end source components eg turntable, phonostage, CD/SACD player, DAC or streamer/DAC, etc and speakers. I’ve never heard music sounding this fluid full body blossom and effortless with these Naim Statement gears (pre + amps) in the signal chain coupled with some most highly capable front end source components (digital or analog or both).
These Naim Statement pre & amps simply don’t sound, you are simply hearing a true musical reproductions and representations. Music simply blossoms to its fullest and is soo efortless and sooo fluid. They excel in all areas as they should be considering their design concept topology and design goals and prices of these Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps. But again in order to achieve absolute best musicality you must have a very highly capable front end source component(s), whether digital or analog or both, to pair with these Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps. The quality of your front end source components (turntable or digital front end source components) are the most important element(s) in the hifi chain and it is where the musical signal sources start or begin, not the preamp or power amps or integrated amp.
And I can’t imagine anyone using some mediocre or good but not great front end source components to pair with these Naim Statement preamp & monoblock amps. It would have been a total waste and unwise move as these Naim Statement pre & amps are cost-no-object design gears.
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@gillatgh
I think the best or most musical HT preamp processors for two-channel music I have heard to date are the following : Meridian Reference 861 v8, Krell Evolution 707, Krell S1200, Classe SSP 800, Classe Sigma SSP, Bryston SP3 when paired with right associated gears & speakers, Theta Casablance lV with extreme DACs when paired with the right associated gears, speakers & cablings.
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@caphill Thanks! I tried both, plugging the 509X into the conditioner and direct to the wall. I prefer direct to the wall, but not a huge difference. Though I still need to upgrade power cables and maybe the conditioner as well.
@maguiar Any updates? Did you pull the trigger on a system?
On my side I have been doing a lot of testing on streamers (I listen to Tidal mostly). I picked up a Lumin D2 which I liked, but felt it a tad warm for my setup, so I just received a T2 which I am breaking in now. I am reserving judgment/comparisons, but fresh out of box it sounds great and it's getting better by the hour. I can see why people rave about it.
In my comparisons, I was really surprised that the Marantz 8805 can hold it's on when it comes to DAC/Streamers. It has a HUGE soundstage and with the right cable has a pretty great overall sound. It doesn't have the crispness and accuracy of the T2, but for an all-in-one solution it can sound pretty great. |
I am currently using a Theta Casablanca IV preamp/processor and a Lumin T2 along with Krell Class A power amps and Revel Ultima Studios. Cabling is Wireworld and Kimber for interconnects and Transparent Audio for speakers. Power conditioning is all Shunyata Denali with Venom power cords.
Thr resultant sound is truly outstanding.
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@Eziggy,
Unfortunately had a bit of a financial set back and need to recoup. I am hopeing to resolve this by the end of the year. Anyway, I have decided to go with the Pass XA 30.8 and the XP22 for my music. For the home theatre I am leaning towards the Parasound A51 and the latest Marantz.
Has anyone owned or auditioned any Backert Labs gear? I am a bit curious.. |
out of the box solution...
rotel rap-1580 + rmb-1585 5x200wpc power amp
powerful, smooth, authoritative, engaging sound that won't break the bank.
only caveat is that the pre/pro is a full hand-on manual unit, no auto setup
:)
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Agree with that Rotel RMB-1585 five-channel amp. It's a steal at $3k new. Musically engaging especially for the money.
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Maguiar why don't you look at the Coda gear, the Coda .8 has the same specs as the Pass Labs 30.8 yet costs a lot less, in Home Theater Review they compared this amp to a twice the price pair of Pass Monoblocks and liked the half as expensive Coda to the twice the price Pass Labs.
By the way the Backert stuff is the real deal heard them at CAP and the sound of their system was excellent, word on the street is that Backet's preamps challenge way more expensive ones.
Good luck.
Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ Coda dealers |
@audiotroy
Thanks for the advice, will look into Coda.
I get a good feeling based on reviews and specs that Backert is good stuff and cheaper than the Pass XP22. I would like to audition it at some point prior to my purchase. I think it would pair nicely with the XA 30.8 and I can save money.
I wonder if they offer loaners for a trial period.. |
Gentlemen,
Apologies but I’m new to the forum. I have a question and I was hoping some of you could give me your honest opinions. I ordered and put a deposit down on an NADM 17 V2 unit. This was back in June!. They are apparently still on back order and apparently an ID is having some issues with parts suppliers and something with their Manufacturing in China.
Originally I was also considering the Lyngdorf MP-50 but at the time they too were in the process of up upgrading their HDMIs.
So now Lyngdorf has their new MP-60 processor they just released. I want a HT professor that also provides good 2 channel performance. I plan on a 5.2.4 set up .
I have concerns about the current issues NAD is having. There is a big difference in price but the Lyngdorf dealer is willing to discount their unit 1k because of the issues with NAD whom they too represent . Cost aside, I’m leaning towards the Lyngdorf.
Please advise
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Hi rbgator94,
When I started this thread I was in the dark about all this but I spent a lot of time researching and ended up changing my mind about things. If you read all the above you will see what I mean. My conclusion was to separate my music from the home theatre since both require different listening preference. I like my music listening experience to be on the warmer side which will not be ideal for home theatre in my opinión.
After reading and researching and only on that, since I have not auditioned any of them. I believe the Lyngdorf would be a good choice if that is the route you would like to go. My personal choice for both music and ht would be Plinius or Classe but unfortunately Classe is out of the game, although I believe they still have some stock available. Also, check out Parasound and you can’t beat the price.
My suggestion is to do your homework since it’s such a big expense and have fun.........
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