Bryston 4B3 vs Mac MC462 vs Pass Labs X250.8, OR... GRYPHON Diablo 300?

Bubb, unfortunately the shop didn't have the 803 D3's for me to test with the Diablo, as they said they sell so many 804's and 802's they don't need to demo the 803.  I should be clear I'm not even slightly saying the 802 or D3 line is bad - it just has a less relaxed mid than I prefer.  I agree it is an excellent speaker and I believe others may specifically like it better for how revealing it is.  I've extensively A/B tested my 803 D2's with the 804 D3 and I've heard the 804 D3 in other systems as well with the same qualities detected in the midrange which are simply not to my liking.  Regarding the typical analysis of dynamics, timing, attack, decay, etc, as I said I was unable to get a good read on these during my test of the Diablo.  Sorry to fail in my typical reviewing abilities!  Another way to put it is that the sound was so unique in my experience, that I admit I lost my sonic bearings a bit and I spent most of my time trying to get them back!  Again this was due to the soundstaging (it was like, how can I test this amp when there is a singer right in front of me distracting me from the test!) and the "control" aspect which I found very different.  With the vocals it is like a disembodied voice is planted right in front of you.  I've seen others say this about how pinpoint the Diablo is with vocals.  By "control" and "muscular" I mean that you get the sense that the speakers are doing EXACTLY what the amplifier is telling them to do, and not leaving any leeway for the speakers to do anything else.  It is hard to described in terms of typical descriptors of dynamics, attack, decay etc.  It is more a sense of being completely "dialed-in" and "focused". That's what gave me the feeling of using high-end headphones while I was listening.  The only difference being the soundstage was in front of me instead of left/right and in my head as it is with headphones.  That is what I am working through, whether I'll grow to enjoy this as a sonic benefit.  I think I will - it is a really cool effect and I think it is just my ears are biased to what I'm used to which is most definitely not this!  Sorry, I didn't get a chance to listen to The Chain, as I was working through my own sense of experiencing sonic discombobulation.  Realized when I left the audition I was quite dehydrated too so that didn't help.  I am thinking of going back next week which is my nearest opportunity.  Also of note - the room was medium sized, I was maybe 8-9 ft from the speakers, and it was set up to be an equilateral triangle between both speakers and me.  The room had a lot of dampening - which could have added to the "control" factor.  I typically like a bit more energy to come from the room to liven it up (but not much).  I did request they bypass the power conditioner they had and plug the Gryphon directly into the unconditioned wall outlet, so there shouldn't be any issue there.  In terms of burn-in, it was a "distributor demo" that had just arrived at the shop.  They said they expected it had some heavy use on it but they said there'd be no way for them to know for sure.  The did offer the demo unit to me (with DAC and phono modules) at a very aggressive price so I'm thinking it can't possibly be new if they can do that.

I think, you definitely need another audition. One thing about Gryphon you certainly got right. It has a great grip on speakers and you feel the amp's presence. In a manner of speaking, it is quite authoritarian. 

That is a perfect way to describe it “you feel the amp’s presence”.  It is difficult to describe this effect in a non-subjective way.  It is like the amp is curating the music for you, the way it wants to  (and doing a very, very good job of it).  What I’m wrestling with is whether I like this effect vs an amp that “disappears”.  No one I’ve seen has commented on this control element being a negative factor, so maybe I would be able to stop focusing on it so much after some extended listening sessions.  I doubt that can happen over an in-store audition.  On one hand I really like the effect.  On the other, I seem to notice it a bit too much and it’s distracting.  Now that I think of it - I did see one person on another forum say it was too controlled and not free-flowing enough for them.  But that’s the only one.

nyev, you have a great perception of the sound. This amp/speakers interaction is a complicated thing. I myself like speakers that are slightly loose and give me a somewhat 'bluesy' sound. But this kind of speakers need an amp with a firm grip not to get out of control. It should be a right balance, and it can be a matter of preference. It appears that this Gryphon/B&W pair does not strike the right balance, though it does certain things very well. That's why you are so ambivalent. Just don't buy if you are not sure.
What I also know about Flemming, I watched a number of interviews with him, is that he likes large scale music. This influenced his designs.
I understand what you call "flow" of music. Again, it's interesting and not simple. For example, and that's not about amps or speakers, it is about the sources, both analog in this case. My Nottingham turntable overall sounds much better than Nakamichi cassette deck. But, music has more coherence and flow when played on tape, tape recorded off vinyl played on the same Nottingham. I also once noticed the disruption of the flow with a wrong interconnect cables.

Nyve,

Boooo....no 462 review!?!?

; )

I’m getting the Bryston 14b3.. Besides, went to the Mac house in Manhattan, and they were rude. Now I need to figure out a preamp for uae with my ML 15a’s. Gonna keep using my Cambridge 851n as the preamp in the interim.

Sorry Morg, the shop had set up the 462 for me but the Gryphon was so unique there was no point in comparing with the 462, at least for me, and I had too much to focus on with the Diablo.

As I said if my choice was between Bryston and Mac I’d go Bryston without question.  And that’s based on my test of the 4B3 and 452.  You give up a bit of the Mac’s fully fleshed our mids but you gain so much more in dynamics, timing, drive and bass.  Best of luck with the 14B3!

If I end up buying the Diablo and if it doesn’t work out for some reason, my fallback will be to sell it and go with the 14B3 and a suitable TBD preamp.  There is no way for me to be totally sure of how the the Diablo will do with my 803 D2’s before buying, and as I said the D3 line I’m testing it with in the shop has elements that don’t agree with me, which is actually the very reason I chose my D2’s and not the D3 at the time I bought them.

Theoretically, there might be a way - to bring the Gryphon home for audition or to take your speakers to the dealer's room. In reality, maybe not. This is a quite a big decision alright.

I already offered to leave a deposit to bring the Gryphon home for a demo and dealer said they don’t do in-home demos, full stop. And I’d need to lug 180 pounds of speakers to the shop (which is not local to me), risking damage especially with exposed tweeters. I will go back for a second audition, and probably proceed with the Diablo even if everything isn’t 100% perfect to my ears with the speakers they have on hand (I will test using Sonus Faber speakers next, instead of the 802’s. If I end up having to sell (hopefully not), I know I could be happy with a less advanced but still very all-round capable and highly enjoyable Bryston 14B3 based system. At least, that is my thinking at this point.  

I see. This ever-present power and will of the Diablo that go thru everything create this complicated impression.
They say it will drive almost any speakers. Maybe so but this doesn't mean it will match well with them all.
If you can afford buying and then selling if you have too, that's good, it gives you more space and time to make the final decision. 
 

Best of luck and great listening with the Diablo Nyve! I read a review on it thanks to you. Truly unique design. Like how the first 10W is class A out of it.

Okay, I've completed a second audition of the Gryphon Diablo 300.  As I was prepared for the type of sound to expect, from the first audition, the results were far clearer for me this time.  I'll be proceeding with purchasing the Diablo 300.
I started testing driving the 802 D3's again, just as a baseline from where I left off last time.  In the end I didn't feel the need to switch out the speakers.  The huge dynamics, timing and drive, impressive 3D soundstaging, very solid and well developed midrange, and excellent bass that most all reviewers / posters have commented on were all there, and were all very impressive.  I believe that a good portion of the midrange quality is derived from the internal DAC module, with mids being well "grounded" as one pro review put it.  I noticed that this quality was not there when using an external (albeit much lower-end) DAC. 

Everything was very, very impressive.  At the end I even threw some poorer quality recordings at the Diablo to see how badly things would go, and it totally surprised me by making them sound great - even highlighting vocal details I'd never caught before on these crap mixes.  I thought the incredible amount of detail would surely make the Diablo tear these songs apart, but instead the songs really did take on the feel of a live performance.  These same recordings have bordered on un-listenable on my current rig at home.  It's paradoxical that a system that is so transparent and revealing in detail can still make poorer recordings/mixes sound musical and enjoyable - this is not typically the case.
I think my first audition went off the rails a bit for a few reasons:  1) Up to that point I'd been used to auditioning gear in my home.  While it is obviously better to test in your own space with your own gear, the mental shift to testing in a shop was also jarring, and 2) the first audition I used my own speaker cables for part of the test, and I noticed after I got home that one of the spade terminals had become slightly unscrewed, which would have slightly unseated the compression contact on one of the terminals, and 3) just the sheer capabilities of the Gryphon was not something I was expecting.  During the first audition, it felt a bit like seeing a 3D movie - stunning, but not an experience you necessarily want all the time.  However, this time around, I was just impressed and enjoyed the music.
While I'm planning on proceeding, the only slight concern I have is with regard to service, should I ever need it.  Shipping the unit back to Denmark for repair will not be cheap, however my guess is that this may only happen once in its (or my) lifetime.  Chalk it up to cost of ownership.  The other concern is that there are only three dealers in North America.  If Gryphon decides (again) they want or need to pull out of N.A. sales, there won't be any way to get service.  Gryphon states they do not provide any direct service or communication to customers; they direct customers to their dealers.  Finally, Fleming Rasmussen has now retired, and as Gryphon is a very small company (say compared to McIntosh or Bryston), I'd hope that they have a strong future even without their former leader who was heavily invested in all aspects of design, and I expect in other areas of the company operations as well. At the end of the day these concerns won't stop me from proceeding, but they are certainly considerations.  Their headquarters looks cool but it is tiny - you can see it from a distance on Google St View!  I guess these things just go along with a bespoke brand like Gryphon.

You see, I said you'd forget Bryston after hearing Gryphon. Gryphon is true high end.
Yes, Flemming has left but I think he will keep an eye on what's going on. Regarding service, I suspect that if they pull out of North America they will service units sold here, you will just have to ship it to Denmark. Their model of communications with clients sounds a little arrogant and potentially inconvenient to me. But the risk is small, I would say.

Quite frankly, your concerns seem valid and would probably stop me from laying out this type of cash for the unit. Its the two big show stoppers, having to ship to a heavy unit to a different country for repairs and an unknown as to the future direction of the company.  Nowhere near the same financial investment, but I have Museatex-Meitner mono block amps, designed and manufactured by Ed Meitner.  After this company shut down one of the amps had problems.  If it was not for John Wright who worked with Meitner, there would be no easy avenue to repair the unit that is not of a completely conventional design.  As it is, the unit is being shipped to Canada for repair.  No huge deal, but it doesn't weigh 100 lbs either. So your concerns are valid.

Most true high end companies are small, creations of one or two people, and many of them are not young. So there is always some risk. During its 30+ years of history Gryphon sold a number of pieces, especially in Europe and Asia, there should be places to service them for many years to come. Yes, some parts are custom or semi-custom.
For my future set up in addition to Gryphon I am considering Lamm, VAC and Allnic. I think, they are even worse in this respect, Lamm and VAC are basically one man operations and Vladimir of Lamm uses some very rare tubes and maybe something else too that you cannot easily get.
Shipping to Denmark would be very expensive but easy, you wouldn't have to even leave home, DHL or FedEX would pick it up. I would be more concerned about potential difficulties of communicating with Gryphon than about shipping.

I agee Inna, that’s why I say it’s something that is a consideration but not something that will stop my from purchasing.  Shipping to Denmark is expensive but doable, especially with Gryphon’s wooden crate for the unit.  I think this is just part of what you get when you leave the more “mainstream” companies like McIntosh and Bryston and move up a level to a bespoke company like Gryphon.  I don’t think their refusal to deal with customer directly is arrogance, rather I think it is likely necessity due to their size.  Just like their tentative re-entry into N.A. distribution - it’s likely they are not set up to scale for larger volume sales and subsequent support.  Gryphon have never appeared to be interested in really pushing geographic expansion or targeting wider market segments, but again this may be simply because they never focused on positioning company to scale while still maintaining their no-compromise approach to design and (sub-contract) manufacturing.  I think if the N.A. distribution were to stop they would very likely provide direct service.  To me the biggest concern is what their future will be like without Flemming, this is what is different about Gryphon vs most other bespoke companies.  I saw an interview with their current CEO and it didn’t exactly inspire conference, especially what he said about some of the reasons that influenced Fleming’s retirement.   Regardless, I am now fairly confident that to beat the Gryphon Diablo’s sound quality I’d need to spend double the cash (for say a D’Agostino or Luxman system).  And since I’m not prepared to spend that much, the Diablo just makes sense, and it’s a great value.  I don’t know too much about D’Agostino or Luxman but similar concerns could exist with them.

My dad still has an Accuphase pre-amp/amp and a Nakamici tape deck that he bought in the seventies.  The first brand is still around in its mostly original incarnation, but not the second.  When I was a kid there were multiple local shops that provided repair services, which I recall my dad relying on from time to time.  These shops were authorized by the brands to provide service and surely had training.  All of these service options no longer exist.  Changing times.

Yes, changing times, but I too use my Nakamichi 682ZX cassette deck almost daily and have it aligned and tuned every three-four years,
I once read here on Audiogon, a long time ago, a man was asking about the best way to ship big Gryphon stereo amp to Denmark. That was the time when Gryphon was not present in North America but they agreed to service the unit. I am not sure if he was the original owner or not, but you will be.
nyev, where did you see that interview with the current Gryphon CEO ? I would like to take a look too.

By the way, I don't know about D'Agostino but Luxman would sound very different from Gryphon, Accuphase too.

Inna, I’ll try to find the interview, it was just on YouTube.  It was nothing really negative, just said that they weren’t planning to do things differently, that it was an honour, and then something I thought was just a bit odd that he bothered to mention about Flemming.  I’ll see if I can find it again.

Inna, here is the video I was referring to:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFXvA4c4Fk

After researching, I also saw that Gryphon’s new CEO came from B&O (he worked there as of 2010).  They make some neat stuff but I don’t think their main focus is on sound.  In the video above they say that Gryphon’s approach is to allow their engineers to work with any budget necessary to achieve the highest quality sound, and that they plan on continuing with this high-end market focus.  I’d be curious as to how they plan to grow within this market, or even if corporate growth is a goal for Gryphon.  Some companies simply don’t care about that.

nyev, appreciate it. I have just watched it.
Yeah...
The man does not sound like either audiophile and music lover or high class. I also thought that he had no clue of where to go, no leadership perceived, but that may not be bad in this case. His reference to Flemming's health was inappropriate. On the positive side, as I suspected, Flemming will actually stay as a chief designer and consultant at least for some time, and that the new CEO would unlikely do anything completely wrong or they will throw him out.
Gryphon certainly has been growing in North America, but they don't make too many units and I hope they will keep it that way.
Also, though currently any new Gryphon is out of my reach, I don't want to see affordable Gryphon.
I would not have any problem for myself getting Gryphon, especially new from authorized dealer.

It's hard to tell from a short interview; we'd just be speculating.  I just found it a bit odd is all.  Also I think it is not realistic that a small boutique shop can stay a small boutique shop forever - thirty years is a long run.  With Fleming retired, I'd guess there is more chance the company will eventually change hands in the future (after which its identity would change, as I'd think it likely Flemming continues to own a large, likely majority share in the company).  I can't see Gryphon growing much in the uber high-end segment, which I'm sure is a small niche market, even globally.  Either way all of this is purely conjecture, and I'm happy to proceed with the Diablo.  Hopefully I'll be able to get service if I ever need it, and hopefully I never will need it!

Keep us informed of your experience with the Diablo, I think many are interested. Whatever else it might be, Gryphon is a very distinct and very high class voice. It also demonstrates what transistor equipment is capable of, even hard core tube purists respect it.

I home demoed both the Diablo 120 and 300 before I purchased the 300.
The Diablo 120 imho at medium to low volumes sounded as good if not better than the 300. But as a value taking price versus power the 300 won me over.
The Diablo 120 has a special promotion now which makes it a good deal. 
IMO these integrateds are easily the best solid states on the market. The Live and detailed presentation is the best I have ever heard.
 That being said I sold the Diablo and went to a Vac 200iq tube amp. Being an old guitar player I just prefer tube amps in general.....that je ne sais quoi...factor.

nyev, you have buying the gryphon in mind and nothing is going to change your mind.  I do the same when I make up my mind.  You are giving little weight to the reasons for not purchasing the unit, and then weighing too heavily the reasons for buying the amp.  For example, you make it sound like the gryphon is the "budget buy" of top gear and the best sounding in its price range.  Inna makes it sound like to buy top gear it has to come with all the uncertainties of having a potentially unstable manufacturer to deal with and possibly proprietary parts not being available.  I am not saying anything negative may happen at all, but I am saying that you brought up all of these things and I think you are wise in doing so.
.
I have lots of respect for inna's points of view but don't agree with a couple of points here.

There is what appears to be a brand new never used Diablo 300 for sale right now on A'gon for $12,300, local pick up Des Plaines, IL only, without a DAC or phono stage.  Just providing this to give an idea of the mark up (normal?) on these units and perhaps a little bargaining power when you go to purchase it.

dguitar, I hear you. But we are talking about transistor amps so I won't go there. What preamp do you use with your VAC ? Phono stage ? Oh yes, and what speakers ?

But yes, though there is never a guarantee, if you want as much piece of mind as possible long term, I think companies like FM Acoustics, Nagra and Accuphase will give you that, especially if you are an original owner. I don't know how good their service is, they just shouldn't disappear in the foreseeable future or radically change course. They would not be my first choice, certainly not if buying new, but that's me, there are other approaches.

It is a beautiful amplifier with its Bat Cave looks which I like, and it does seem to garner rave reviews.  I see why you want one as I am sure I would like it too, I just didn't  have any idea of the negatives until you brought them up.

nyev

I enjoyed your follow up review. The most important factor is repair/service after the sale. Does The Gryphon have an authorized repair representative here in the U.S.A. ?

Happy Listening!

Gryphon does. I once talked to their distributor, inquiring about possible 220 to 110 volts conversion. The lady said they would not work on any not North America voltage units and that I would have to ship it to Denmark. She also said they would not install optional phono in not 110 volts units. I was just thinking, hypothetically, of maybe buying used unit from Europe or Asia at some point. Not only Diablo 300, older integrateds and separates as well. Gryphon separates is a dream unless I decide to go all tube. Perhaps in steps, first Gryphon integrated with tube phono, then Gryphon separates with tube phono and then all tube. But each of these steps would already be excellent by itself. 

I've never heard a Gryphon product.   I'm very curious as to how the Diablo 300 compares to a Pass X250.8/X350.8 + excellent preamp like the XP-20/XP-22,  Sim 740P, or say AR REF5SE.   A great sounding and powerful integrated is very appealing; that being said for the price a very solid amp/pre pair + interconnect can be put together on the used market that would also sound awesome.     Is the Gryphon still in another league from these North American products?

I've seen used 250.8s for ~$5500USD, 350.8s for ~$8000, XP-20s for ~ $5000, XP-22s for ~$7000, 740Ps for ~$5000, and AR REF5SE for ~$6000.   There is a Diablo 300 on this site now for ~$12K.   Throw in $800 to $1K for an excellent interconnect (like a Shunyata Anaconda for instance) and you can mix and match a pretty awesome stack for a little less or a little more than the integrated.

As much as I like my 250.8, I still think adding the 740P to my system made one of the largest improvements compared to all of my various electronic upgrades over the many years.   That is where I wonder if the biggest advantage to going with separates over these amazing but pricey integrateds is the ability to tailor the preamp section to your amp of choice.

Obviously using the MSRPs of these separates compared to the Diablo or other similar products is not fair and one can see where the integrateds provide excellent value.  But, if the integrateds are not available at similar discounts used, then maybe the value proposition shifts...     Of course, none of this holds if the Diablo is another level above these separates in sound quality.

Cheers

Yeah, interesting. My guess is that Diablo 300 will win in all cases except maybe where for some reason you want active preamp, Diablo's preamp section is passive.
I myself would not compare Diablo 300 to used Pass separates, I would compare it to used Lamm hybrid separates.

From my experience in terms of what I have access to test in my area (which is admittedly limited), Diablo 300 beats all separates at a similar price point. This includes McIntosh C2600/MC452, Bryston 4B3 with various preamps, and the Simaudio 600 integrated. I’ve tested other combinations in-store that were on my long-list before the shortlist gear mentioned above which I tested in-home. I also tried using the Simaudio 600i as a preamp to get a sense of what the 740p preamp might sound like. None of these configurations came even close to the Gryphon integrated in any particular area. Except, maybe, the Simaudio in terms of soundstage and detail, but performance was similar only in that one area. To me the Simaudio sounded dry, a bit analytical, had no drive and not a lot of bass, and didn’t engage me in a musical sense at all. Higher power Simaudio amplifiers would be better, but the overall sonic presentation didn’t appeal to me and sounded lifeless. When I tested all of this gear, I wanted to like them, and even with the Gryphon I wasn’t sure on my first audition. Now that I’ve gone through this process, I’m confident that overall the Gryphon is not even comparable to other options at its price or lower; it was so much more capable and makes it very obvious it is in a different class of gear.
Also, the consensus from many others say you would need to spend double the cost of the Diablo 300 to beat its performance. This includes Whitecamaross (OP of the "Long list of amplifier and my review of each" multi-year thread) who feels I’d need to go to the Luxman pre/pwr 900u system to beat the Diablo, and these are WAY more expensive. That dude has a ton of hands-on experience beyond what any reasonable hobbyist should have and he is worth listening to.
So yes, I am intentionally not giving weight to my concerns around service. And I don’t know that Gryphon has N.A. authorized repair, as I asked my dealer this and I got a bit of a fuzzy answer ("Gryphon engineers can walk technicians through diagnostics over the phone, and its possible that if only one module or board needs switching out that it can be done remotely"). To me it sounds like any real service will require shipping to Gryphon headquarters.  In fact, even my dealer thought they had an issue with their previous demo unit (turned out the unit was fine) and they had to ship it back to Denmark.  In short, I’m resigned to paying a lot in shipping should I require out of warranty service, and hoping that Gryphon continues as a business even without their original founder, which I think is more likely than not. Also, my dealer offered me a similar deal to the one Jetter referenced on Audiogon, on their demo Diablo which I tested. I considered this as they would include the DAC and phono modules which is a huge value, but in the end I don’t think I can get over two cosmetic scratches on their demo unit, even though they are minor. Also they have no history of the unit, it was simply provided as a "distributor demo". So I think I will be going with a new Diablo with the DAC module, instead of the demo option. The internal DAC module on its own performs so well, that this in itself warrants getting excited about!

If your funds are good you might consider getting $2500 phono as well. You may not need it now but who knows about the future ? And also, if you ever decide to sell the Diablo this will add value in many cases. With both phono and dac this will be a complete machine.

I am a sucker for being upsold, careful :)  Yes I could consider the phono module as well, but my goal is to, at some point in the future, to get a great turntable and as such I am thinking I'd be better served with an external phono module, possibly tube based.  I really don't know much about turntables or phono stages, but from what others have said, it seems external would be ideal.  Thoughts??  Also, should I go with the internal phono module in the future I'd be fine opening up the unit and installing myself.  In fact I'd enjoy that.  I asked and they said if you are comfortable working with electronics (I am), it is not an issue to install the modules myself.

By all accounts, not from my personal experience, current Gryphon's phono stage module is absolutely best compared to any other solid state integrated. At the very least, it is a very very good phono stage.
Sure, great separate tube or transistor phono will outdo it, I would guess for two or three times the cost plus interconnects and power cord.
And.. if you decide to add that phono module in ten years it may no longer be available.
So..?

All very good points.  I'll have to think on it!  I've had that exact issue happen to me in the past, where I had my upgrade path planned at the time of initial purchase and then when the time came I went to the shop and the key components were discontinued....  In that case it worked out as ebay saved the day and I bought used...

One other thing to add about my second audition of the Gryphon.  I actually enjoyed the 802 D3 speakers much more once I put my finger on what was initially making me a bit uncertain about them.  Yes the midrange is more aggressive than the D2, but it is also more revealing and presents very lifelike vocals as a result.  I found the Stereophile review of the 802 D3's and I think they hit the nail on the head for me - they said the speakers were great but noted that some may find the speakers too "light" due to the fact that the bass, while very deep and present, has no added "resonance" and no bloat and therefore can make the overall tonal presentation seem a bit light.  Once I realized this I appreciated the speakers more.  The bass is very deep and very present; it is just so well defined without bloat or "resonance" as Stereophile put it, that it makes the midrange appear to stand out more when listening to music that is lighter in lower level frequencies. 

Bass resonance must be present if recorded, just as body and resonance of other instruments in other frequencies. It should not be bloated unless, again, that's how it was recorded.
Yeah, as I like to think, the biggest audiophile mistake is not to spend enough, and second biggest one is to spend too much. You just have to define it in each case.
You mentioned possible great turntable in the future. Some will say that there are great $5k turntables while others will say that there is nothing great under $50k. Gryphon phono should be adequate for $5k table /arm plus up to $2k cartridge set up. But if you go higher, yes, no choice but have separate phono.

When the time is right, I’d guess my budget for a turntable would be up to $12K.  But that could all change once I start exploring that avenue further and I become better acquainted with the options....

But after this purchase I doubt that will be happening for 1-3 years!  

I also need to consider whether I’m happy continuing using my Mac Mini with Audirvana as my digital music streamer or whether I’d like to get a dedicated streamer at some point.  I’m not sure how much difference something like an Aurender or even one of Simaudio’s streamers will make vs my Mac Mini.  I’ve got a decent AudioQuest Diamond USB cable and also a JitterBug anti-jitter device (which I have not tried yet).  I have trouble spending a lot on a dedicated streamer considering how quickly technology will render it obsolete, despite firmware upgrades etc.  I worry about that for DAC’s as well, as even that technology is changing in terms of supported formats.  Gryphon’s documentation for the Diablo DAC module expects users will be connecting to a computer, so I’m hoping that’s a sign that my Mac Mini should be sufficient.  If Gryphon assumes use of a computer as a streamer for their DAC, that must be a sign it’s acceptable!  

I know virtually nothing about digital, I did hear something about Aurender and PS Audio streamers, something good, I just don't remember what exactly I heard. I mean heard from serious audiophiles.
As far as turntables go, $12k for table/arm plus cartridge would be an excellent set up, high level. Whether you choose warmer sounding, say, Nottingham Analogue or Pear Audio turntables or colder more neutral sounding, say, SME or Kuzma or Simon Yorke turntables, everything should be matched as much as possible, not just electrically and mechanically but also musically. Gryphon's onboard phono could be a good starting point but you would want to go higher or both higher and with tubes. I read somewhere that Gryphon's own separate phono is great but very expensive. 
Of course, Gryphon expects the use of a computer as a source but not only, they are well aware that many audiophiles keep playing cds. So with both phono and dac onboard you just need sources, speakers and a few cables, the Diablo will take care of the rest. Oh yes, and the wall current.

I get your concerns over repairs and the dealer’s response, but I am in a similar boat with my Symphonic Line electronics from Germany. This fall I had an output board fry in the CDP/DAC (ooo-oooh that smell, can’t you smell that smell?). The solution was to send me a new one to plug in, and all was well. To be honest, I actually preferred DIY to entrusting it to FedEx or UPS.

Hi Guy's,
Interesting thread you have started on the Gryphon Diablo 300.

I have just ordered a Diablo 300. No dac or phono module, as I am all digital with a very good dac I am happy with. I may entertain Gryphon's dac module down the road, but we will see. My dac is out getting upgraded at the moment to their latest  spec in the UK. Both pieces should back and here maybe this week or next. The only other thing is I have to go out of town for a couple of weeks beginning of March as things arrive.  :(

I did not have the luxury of auditioning the Gryphon Diablo 300 prior, in my area. I know I know, but unless you have that exact piece in your environment, with your speakers, etc, it is a guessing game with synergy....
I am down sizing from  McIntosh Mc501 mono blocks, and there two piece C500t preamp. I had these mated to my PMC Ib2i's. This system sang, and I would have kept it, but the sprawl of everything needed to go as my room and setup is different now since I moved. I wanted a top end integrated amplifier. Hence the Diablo 300.

Nyev, your concern's about repair are perhaps warranted, but over thought or worrying too much in my opinion. When you get into this caliber of components, with military spec boards and top selected components, repair will be negligible if any in my opinion. World wide shipping works now a days as repair depot's are not on every corner from most upscale brands anyway. The cost of doing business "if" needed. As you mentioned the dealer sent their unit in and nothing was amiss. That dealer was pushing that amp and doing usual things with it anyway.

So....order, enjoy, and don't look back.

Xsparky you are probably right about overthinking the service risk.  One thing though is I think it is likely that only one or two areas of the Diablo are mil-spec.  I can’t imagine all components, relays, etc are mil-spec.  Could be just the PCB’s themselves that are, and not the components on the boards.

Out of curiosity, what are you feeding your DAC from?  I’m using a Mac Mini with Audirvana but am considering whether to plan a move to a dedicated streamer.  Which may be more important to do once I have the Diablo in my system.

Hi,

I have a Linn Klimax Dsm streamer. This is getting upgraded at the moment to their Katalyst dac architect. It has been in storage for a couple of years since my move. I like the fact that Linn has supported and continues to support their customers with upgrades if desired. I plan to use Roon to source my flac music library and music services to stream to the Linn Dsm.

These two pieces will be the heart of my system to my PMC's.

My Diablo 300 was barebones as I only use digital streaming from a LUMIN U1 to a Chord Dave Dac via AES/ebu.....then to the Diablo. It worked splendidly.
Inna ......in my present system I have the LUMIN U1 to the Chord Dave to a Vac Renaissance Mk5 Preamp to a Vac 200iq amp to a pair of Magico S3MK2 speakers.
I have absolutely no interest in analog and I prefer the flexibility of choosing my own Dac. For the record I got a very noticeable SQ increase when I went with the LUMIN U1 streamer over my Mcbook Pro via USB to the Chord Dave.

Ordered the Diablo 300 today (finally), with the DAC module.  Dealer offered me a demo phono board that may or may not have ever been used, at half price, so I accepted.  The rest will be brand new.

I’ve also ordered an InnuOS Zenith Mk III player, as I don’t think my Mac Mini was really up to the job.

Diablo could be ready for pickup in two weeks, but the InnuOS could take up to two months as the new MK III is backordered.

After everything is burned in I’ll be testing power cords.  Others on this board have told me they don’t really notice a difference between cords on the Diablo.  Possibly due to the Diablo’s design vs other amps which are quite different with different cords.  Need to get my hands on a demo Valhalla 2 just to see if it can do anything with the Diablo.  I’ve also been told the cord makes way more difference with the media server/player than it does with the Diablo, as digital equipment tends to “pollute the AC line.”  But I’ll probably go with something like the AQ Hurricane -  we’ll see after testing.  Depends how the Valhalla 2 does.... I’ll need to wait a couple of months for the InnuOS to arrive before that testing.  Until then I’ll have to burn in the Diablo with the Mac Mini running Audirvana.

Congrats nyev!   I’ll be interested to hear how the Valhalla 2 works out for you.

Congratulations Nyev,

I am out of town unfortunately until March 18th. My Diablo 300 is at my dealer now. It cam in the week after I left. You will have to
let me know your thoughts
on the dac. My Klimax DSM is getting upgraded now. Should be back close to when I get back too. 

I will have my system system plugged into my Torus Power Rm20 to a 20 amp outlet. The Torus is an isolation transformer keeping everything isolated
and off the electrical grid. Works extremely well with no chocking or coloration!! Had my previous Mac 501’s and everything else plugged Into it with exception success. 
I don’t bother with exotic cords and what not when my system is off the grid. Not needed at all in my opinion. 

The fellow who bought my
Mac gear bought one on my recommendation only. He
likes it so much he
bought more units for
his other systems in other rooms. 

Any, got to go for now.... cheers.