I just sold a set of Nordost Heimdalls and a set of Blue Heaven IC's. They sounded great in my system, and I was going to upgrade to Tyr, Valhallas, or Odins. Instead, I am waiting on Linn IC's since I've always had good luck with them. I have to use Monster cables while waiting for the Linns to arrive. Guess what...my system still sounds fantastic. I would have kicked myself paying the kind of money to get the Nordosts, however their powercords and QB4 distribution box did make a difference for the better, so I guess it really matters what type of system one has.
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Waxwaves, some folks just enjoy a good argument. There are people out there who simply enjoy taking a contrary view in life. I've found folks out there like that. No matter what you say, they will take the opposite stance. This one guy I'll never forget, he used to track me down and try to befriend me. Everything we talked about turned into an argument. His named was Richard, but he enjoyed being called "Dick", which he was, and revealed in the glow. I did my best to avoid him, but I also noticed he was like this with everyone else he met too, it wasn't just me. Then I realized that some folks just enjoy being agitators in life, it's how they have their *fun*. It's a crazy world we live in. |
I'm sure everybody has some old monster cables in the basement. I forgot the reason and also tried them/SC several years ago. My experience is very different than Polks, they had NO bass, highs but just a congested mid sound ... horrible! These are the ones with clear shrink wrap and all copper conductor. I believe 1st generation ... |
03-07-13: Knghifi A friend of mine sent me an email, saying I should peek back in here, and see what turmoil I've helped to wrought. I'm glad I did, because I didn't see Bander's reply before I left. It is seldom I am called intelligent and an ass in one reply. I enjoyed that. As for Knghifi, Waxwaves, and Audiolabyrinth, all of you are waiting for some sort of entertaining debate so you can sit around and pat each other on the back for hearing what no one else can, while accusing those more interested in science and fact of being close-minded - you guys are seriously deluding yourselves. As I said before, being open-minded does not mean being open to silliness. Let's ignore science for a moment, let's stick just to logic, something even you flat earthers can understand. I don't care what the cable is for, whether it's an interconnect, a speaker cable, or a power cable, the case for any one of these fails a basic test, which is why a cable that is only a single segment of a much longer signal path affects sound quality as much as you guys claim it does. In the case of an interconnect, once you get inside of almost any modern component the signal is going to trace on a circuit board. Even if it isn't trace, it's probably some cheap hook-up wire. Why are the trace and solder joints so much less important? Or speaker cables, where most speakers are wired, again, with simple hook-up wire. And if not the cabling inside of speakers, the wire on voice coils, which is often aluminum, or the trace on some crossover boards, not to mention all of the simple bare copper wire in massive air-core inductors? I fail to understand why speaker cables are so much more important than these wires, which are in the same signal path. There is no logic to this. Of course, the most massive failure of logic has to be in power cables and outlets, what with tens of feet of Romex in your house. And power cables aren't even in the signal path. So while you guys are figuratively sitting here, all smug in your pathetic delusions, telling yourselves in posts how the rest of us are just close-minded and half-deaf because we can't hear the differences you all claim are so critical to a great system, think about these questions. Why does a speaker cable make so much difference when there's just plain-old copper wire in that inductor? Or some nice trace on fiberglass in the way? |
One thing I've noted is the amount of hubris some here display when making a point. POVs are made with a modicum of bile. Discourse is peppered with denunciations. Positions are stated as fact allowing nothing but acquiescence as an answer. Open minded? When the maps in ones head don't correspond to the actual territory in the real world, things go awry. People get angry quickly. Knee jerk defensive reactions take the place of discourse. Smarmy snark becomes the norm. Fiberglass traces, miles of Nomex, and internal wiring are all red herrings. They seem to the casual reader to be of import but they are specious arguments, at best. They don't fit into the argument but are used to deflect attention. One thing traces, internal wiring and Nomex have in common is that they are all set. Let that sink in for a minute. The amp is already voiced the way it's been built. To change anything internally will change the sound. Ask any designer. Internal wiring, traces and layout all affect the sound. The same goes for speakers. All designers fuss over internal wiring, crossover design, etc. Laymen and DIYers can use product of lesser value and be happy with the result but they are on a learning curve and not to be confused with the better efforts out there. The wall receptacle is fixed as well. Nothing can be done to it unless you, say, run a dedicated line or go all battery: off the grid. What is being discussed is what can be done between the wall and the amp and the speaker (there's the logic). What is (and should by now) be discussed is the differences we hear (which we can). Some differences more easily than others, hence the discussion. Note: I said discussion. Naysayers and flat earthers need better arguments than "you can't hear it". All the best, Nonoise |
Knghifi, mine are newer 2m that I usually only use for 2 subwoofers. The Linns will be connected to my sources for sure. I have an all tube system and liked the Nordosts, but their cost is not justified. Only their powercords make a difference. I even have the Blue Heaven Rev II bi wires, and they are good, but the sound was the same using Morrow Audio SP4 bi wires, and Kimber TC4 TC8 and TC12 single wires. Happy listening. |
03-08-13: Irvrobinson That is an interesting twist you used there Irv. I've always associated the cable non-believers with the flat earth scientist. Since they are the ones who limit their minds to the boundries of what present day science can explain. Cable believers are more like those who thought the earth to be round before science could catch up and prove it. There will always be conservative folks, people who are bound to beliefs that have been tried and true from past learnings. There will also always be liberals, folks who believe that we should not limit our minds to what is currently known, that there are still worlds out there that remain unexplored. These two types differ in all facets of life, not just on audio forums. There really is no use arguing, since so few of us are weak-minded enough to be easily swayed in either direction. I just wanted to clarify who the true 'flat earthers' are here, and that would be those that beleive what their eyes tell them about the current limited knowledge of human hearing. I believe the human capacity to learn is an ongoing concept, not a finished work. Maybe it's because I suffer from health afflictions that modern science has not learned how to identify or correct yet. I do not feel alone, for thousands of years humans have suffered from real illness' that medical science could not explain or cure in their times. Science is limited by what the human mind can currently understand and explain. Science is ever-evolving, no matter how many flat earthers tell me what I can or cannot see, hear, taste, smell or feel. I have my own scientific measuring tools, one on either side of my head. :) |
what is not considered here is the fallibility and unreliability of perception. this means that one cannot know that there is a difference in the sound of cables, but that it is one's opinion that there is. it has nothing to do with being open monded or closed minded. our senses are imperfect and unreliable. i won't presume to be aware of what someone else is hearing and will not contest his perceptions. i will reserve judgment tto listen and draw my own conclusions. the important thing is not to be judgmental. it does not matter in the abstract what someone says about matters of the sense, since no knowledge can be derived from them. thus the discussion of cables being hyped, or components sounding different is academic. live and let live. |
wow!now things are stirred up!popcorn eanybody!,Its not that I want to argue,cause I will not!,I enjoy to hear both sides of a debate as long as it does not turn nasty!,I will put thousands of dollars on a bet to any one who can not hear a difference between Taralabs zero gold,nordost odin, and cheap cables that the none believers can produce!,first I may check medical records on their hearing and hearing aides first!LOL!,my opinion,I would not spend as much money on cables that I have unless I heard a difference,after all,Its my money!happy listening! |
Nonoise, your post is nonsensical. (BTW, it's Romex, not Nomex.) Why is it that you true believers are allowed to insult the intelligence and the veracity of us cable atheists, yet when someone like me answers you with the same sort of demeaning comments, we're derided? As for your what's fixed and what's variable baloney, what you are implying is that a cable can somehow transform and improve the signal it carries. I have news for you, all a passive conductor can do is insert loss and distortion. If you can hear it, and the differences are so night and day, why can't they be measured? Let me guess, there's some unknown factor in electrical theory we haven't discovered yet, that allows a passive cable to act as a positive transformation device? |
03-08-13: IrvrobinsonThat's fantastic and I'm very happy for you. At one point, I thought they were fantastic too! |
That is an interesting twist you used there Irv. I've always associated the cable non-believers with the flat earth scientist. Since they are the ones who limit their minds to the boundries of what present day science can explain. Cable believers are more like those who thought the earth to be round before science could catch up and prove it. Your association of people who do not believe the cable lie with those who believe in a flat earth runs contrary to how the term evolved. So-called flat-earthers are people who believe that the earth must be flat because they observe it to be, regardless of what the objective evidence reveals. In this regard, Jmcgrogan2, you are asserting that cables sound different because that is your perception, so by analogy you are indeed a flat-earther. What I see as more... unattractive, is that you folks are so proud of your anti-science, anti-knowledge, anti-logic stance, while you type away on a device that wouldn't exist if the understanding of circuit design was so lacking. Which do you think is a more challenging electrical design problem, the design of a cable for audio frequencies, or the microchips we are having this discussion courtesy of? |
Knghifi, mine are newer 2m that I usually only use for 2 subwoofers. The Linns will be connected to my sources for sure. I have an all tube system and liked the Nordosts, but their cost is not justified. Only their powercords make a difference. I even have the Blue Heaven Rev II bi wires, and they are good, but the sound was the same using Morrow Audio SP4 bi wires, and Kimber TC4 TC8 and TC12 single wires. Happy listening. |
Irv, to say I believe in differences is not an insult but for you to hear it is?. That's rich. That would be like one religion saying another religion insults them just for being different. Presupposing a superior position can only lead to a falling of sorts. Now when one is called silly when one had nothing better to say, is an insult. My response is nothing more than a response to an insult. There is a planet full of amp and speaker designers out there of repute who would disagree with you. Nothing non-sensical in that. They all have preferences in cabling based on their design. That speaks volumes. Engaging those professionals at the next audio show you go to would go a long way provided some of them might be willing to discuss it with you. As for your analogy of who is a flat earther, I disagree. A flat earther would say what is apparent is only what can be seen, so the earth would seem flat. Even before it could be observed otherwise, it was supposed that it wasn't. That would be those who believe otherwise, or in our case, the cable difference believers. All the best, Nonoise |
Irv, to say I believe in differences is not an insult but for you to hear it is?. Oh come now, Nonoise, I'm not talking about the discussion of possible differences being bandied about, I was referring to the insults and negativity, which you true believers seem to want to reserve for yourselves. Let's see, I've been called immature, that I lack experience, that I lack listening ability, that I'm closed-minded, and that's just you. And, of course, I'm an ass, according to my new friend Bandy. (Well, that might be true.) And what is the net of your argument, that you and other believers say so? And that some of them design amplifiers and speakers? This is evidence? All this is evidence of is mass delusion, or perhaps just some people saying what sells in some cases. Anyone that builds amps using hook-up wire you buy by the spool knows that the signal on that cheap-o wire, the wire that's just stranded copper with some teflon wrapped around it, is carrying the same signal as that special geometry, proprietary mix of various vintages of copper and silver, with four layers of some special insulation, and perhaps a battery-powered dielectric. Believe me they know. So do the speaker guys. They're building crossovers, and they know too. Oh yeah, they're choosing all of this so carefully. Especially the tube amp guys with their steel-pinned tubes and sockets that have mechanical play in them. Why is it that the cable fallacy soldiers on when there is not one valid theory about why such differences exist, or even one test case that shows anyone was able to tell the difference between cables, no less which one is actually better, any more than one would expect by random chance? Yet we have people who claim that not only are there differences, but that they can design cables to sound a certain way. Which is more likely, that cable vendors know some secrets no one else does, or that they just make stuff up that markets well, like funny geometries or some special mix of conductor materials, and says whatever it takes to make the sale? |
The following was written before seeing Irv’s most recent post, the last paragraph of which touches on aspects of this controversy that are somewhat similar: In the midst of all the disagreement, I think that there is one thing pretty much everyone would agree on. If in fact there are audibly significant differences among cables, those differences are not fully explainable on the basis of generally recognized science. On the one hand, the effects that resistance, inductance, and capacitance will have under some circumstances are readily explainable, and can be analyzed quantitatively. The role that cables may play in ground loop effects, emi/rfi pickup, and (at least in the case of digital cables) impedance mismatch effects, are readily explainable, although not readily predictable or quantifiable. On the other hand, various explanations of the claimed benefits of high priced cables, involving things like strand jumping, metal purity, dielectric absorption, skin effect, time alignment, etc., while perhaps providing the basis for effective marketing literature, are either speculative or do not have established thresholds that quantitatively define the point separating what may be sonically significant from what is insignificant. All of which raises an interesting question, that seems to be rarely if ever discussed. If cable differences are not fully explainable on the basis of generally recognized science, upon what principles and upon what basis do the cable designers design the cables? The likely answer, as I see it: Upon some combination of trial and error, using a relatively limited number of systems; pet theories, whose applicability across a wide variety of systems is unproven; and, perhaps most significantly in the case of expensive cables, by overkilling every parameter that the cable designer considers to possibly be relevant. With the degree of overkill increasing as the price of the cable increases. In earlier posts in this thread I addressed how system dependency, especially the dependency of many cable effects on technical characteristics of the components that are being connected, can be expected to loosen the correlation between cable performance and cable price. Each of the three approaches to cable design and development that are listed in the preceding paragraph can be expected to further loosen that correlation. Regards, -- Al |
Al, I always enjoy your posts. You're a classy guy. I understand your position, that classical theory tells you shouldn't hear cable differences, but in a system context you feel you still do. I can take leaps of faith for audibility with active components, but cables? At least with active components there are measured differences, and it's a matter of argument over what's audible. Even then most of us fail the blinded tests. Amplifiers, especially, can be load-sensitive, but cables aren't, and there's just nowhere to stand. How do you reconcile that? Or do you just give in to your whatever your mind desires? ;-) (A position, incidentally, that I understand completely, as long as one is honest about what's happening.) |
Al, Thanks again, for chiming in. Your insight is always welcome, comprehensive, and calming. Would it be that we all had that same discipline. Irv, I've disagreed with you but never mentioned your maturity or experience. I simply doubt you or your systems aural acuity as there are cables laying about my place that all sound different that anyone who has been to my place can attest to and none of them are badly or improperly made and that work in any system. None of them were that expensive nor would I condone dropping mucho coin on cables unless one could afford to. I know I can't. Simple as that, all mass delusion theories aside. I, and others, do hear a difference. As I've said earlier here and elsewhere, I've come across people who do hear the difference but simply don't think it makes that big a difference and it's only been through debating it that they finally admit it. I believe it due to the nature of this hobby and the ridiculous prices some pay thinking it will make a dramatic difference in their lives. (this is not to impugn Audiolabrynth who's took a different and interesting route in assembling his system). This enmity seems to be a in the form of a redress of sorts taken up with a well intentioned but misguided belief that one can set things straight if only they scold others enough. It's only a discussion. All the best, Nonoise |
Just when one of these threads dies down another rears its ugly head. Agreement will never be reached between the two opposing schools of thought here. Why don't we all just agree to disagree and go on to better/other things? These discussions never end well and eventually descend into vitriol, name calling and worse. |
I've disagreed with you but never mentioned your maturity or experience. I simply doubt you or your systems aural acuity as there are cables laying about my place that all sound different And here you go again. My hearing or my system is called into doubt. There are only two possibilities. One possibility is that these cables do measure differently, in terms of the frequency response in your system, and in that case one or more of them is poorly designed. The other possibility is that they all measure the same and you're just imagining the differences. |
Irvrobinson: Once again you have fought the good fight. All points excellent, and right on point. But this will never end because, There is no incentive for the wire folks to submit to scientific examination. And I mean FINANCIAL incentive. Think about this: If all the folks who buy, test, review, make and sell this stuff would prove that wire can be heard, this debate would be over before noon today. If they proved it could be heard, the wire business would increase 1000-fold. They would make more money than ever. Hell, I would buy wire!! Then why don't they do this? well it's the other side of the coin that is holding things up. Failure! If they can't hear it, it's 1929 all over again in the wire business. The scammers would still be rich of course, I am sure the homes in aspen and miami are paid for by now. But, there would be a lot of unhappy campers out there is audio land. Imagine sitting before your system, looking at tens of thousands of dollars worth of, well, wire. Wire that could have been purchased for a few hundred at most. Wire that is now worthless, except for carrying audio signals. I hope I live to see this fraud exposed. I want to HEAR and SEE what the gurus will say then. Will they be able to show their faces ever again. What will happen to the audio Mags? What a wonderful prospect! I think they will say the equivalent of 'Never Mind'(gildna), and then fade away to enjoy their ill gotten gains. Remember this is not the first or only scam in audio. You people have been had before! It's just the biggest and most lucrative. And it surely will not be the last! Advice: If you now own very expensive guru wire, SELL IT NOW! No one will ever know. Because when the crash comes, and it will, you won't be left holding the bag. Like the worthless stock certificates of 1929. Cheers |
Rok2id, This is the last post I'll make on this subject until someone else forgets and posts another thread on the matter, starting it all over again. Your suggestion on DBT has already been shot down. Your victory screed of rising above the fray, waving your sword, and claiming victory is a poor take on St. Crispens speech. DBT has adherents who say there are no differences in properly designed amps and speakers as well. Next thing you know, people will be driven in cars, flown on planes, seated in restaurants, listen to live opera, all blindfolded, and dared to proclaim differences as to car, aircraft, food and singer and then told it's all in their heads. But if you feel strongly enough about it, by all means, proceed to the other threads here and do your level best to knock them down as well. With all the threads about cables, amps and speakers, you and the naysayers could make a career of it. Maybe you could do a sequel to "The Prestige". :-) All the best, Nonoise |
This has nothing to do with stereo systems or ears or any of the rest of this audiophile mumbo jumbo. I am speaking of scientific research. No 'audiophiles' allowed!! Just men of medicine and science. They know how to do 'real' research to discover the truth. They can find out if humans can hear wire. Tell them the question, they will find the answer. The problem is, this subject does not even show up on the radar of normal people. Why would anyone go thru the time, effort and expense to keep a few strange people from self-delusion. They are harmless. Sooo, I don't think we will see my proposal happen anytime soon. If the scammers made any claims for their product,then they would subject to law suit. And then they would have to prove all this magic in open court. But, they don't make any claims,. the marks do that for them. It's the perfect scam! It also has to be the most profitable business this side of drug dealing, and without the deadly 'gone bad' thingy. When the Lord was handing out gifts, he shouted BRAINS!, but the wire folks thought he said RAIN, and they ran for cover! But, like I said, you are harmless, and it's your money. So who really cares. Just a way to pass time on the 'gon. Cheers |
Rok2kid, "If they proved it could be heard" What if a blind test with multi participants were conducted, as with some members reported experiences (here) in which all in attendance came to the same conclusion that a clear winner was agreed upon in the given test system, was clipped on you tube for the anyone to hear. Would you then be able to make a valued opinion played back through a pair of laptop speakers? |
03-09-13: Rok2id That explains why the world is free of hunger and disease. Thanks to these wonderful, all-knowing men of medicine and science, no one has to fear cancer or any affliction anymore. LOL!!! What a tool!!! |
That explains why the world is free of hunger and disease. Thanks to these wonderful, all-knowing men of medicine and science, no one has to fear cancer or any affliction anymore. LOL!!! Well, you do live a lot longer than your great grandparents probably would have, and some cancers are cured daily. And seven billion people are pretty well fed, overall, and the US is going to be energy self-sufficient in a few years, and I can type this response from my iPhone, a technical miracle by comparison to anything that goes on in an audio cable. I'm not sure what your point is, but whatever it is it still mystifies me how people like yourself can argue about the validity of science and engineering via a medium that would not exist without a very deep understanding of the science and engineering you claim is so inadequate. |
"That explains why the world is free of hunger and disease. Thanks to these wonderful, all-knowing men of medicine and science, no one has to fear cancer or any affliction anymore. LOL!!! What a tool!!!" Now, this post should tell any and every one, all they need to know about the intellectual level of the pro-wire crowd. Nothing more need be said! Cheers |
Well you speak of these 'men' as if they were 'gods' Rok. As if they know all that there is to know. As in 'turn out the lights, there is nothing more that we can learn/understand'. IMHO, science is ever-evolving. As the human mind grows, so does science. Science cannot explain everything yet, however, folks like you and Irv do not realize that. You feel that everything there is to know is already known. Maybe that is why many here feel that naysayers are close-minded. Science is a wonderful tool for all of mankind, forgive me if I do not worship at the foot of the altar or become a member of your cult of scientology. Just because science cannot explain why folks hear differences in 2013, does not mean science will not have a better understanding of human hearing in 2113. Have some faith in the human mind Rok! You may not believe it, but we will continue to gain knowledge of our world and universe as time marches on. Pass the popcorn please.... |
Wow!,man-o-man did I miss the party!,I was tied up a couple of days,poped some popcorn and read both sides of the debate here,I have a financial incentive,,I will bet thousands of dollars that anybody that can not hear a difference between Taralabs zero gold,nordost odin against whatever cables that a non believer that cables do not make a difference can produce!,these two cables are in a group that is the best available,the differences between these cables and whatever else that can be produced by a nonbeliever will not be subtle!,It would be like going from an rca all in one box stereo system to a Dan D Agistino momentum mono block amplifier at $42,500 a pair!,again the differences will not be subtle!more like huge to say the least!,if anyone would say,how does he know?,lets just say I have lived with these world class cables before and lived with the rca and many of Dan D Agistino engineered products and $1.00 to $10.00 a foot cables. Irvrobinson and rok2id,welcome back to the thread,thankyou for keeping the thread alive and well,thou I did not start it,It is interesting and entertaining,cheers and happy listening to all! |
The mistake that is made is the assumption that science is capable of explaining these things at all. Who says it can? Or that it should? We are talking about the sound of music; human expression. In all the talk about wether differences in cables (and whatever else) can be heard or not, very little time is spent talking about music; what it is, and what a miracle it is that one can reproduce something that is capable of touching our emotions. Can a "scientific" explanation really be expected to fully explain that which is the result of the soul of a performer; and how it may touch any given listener's sensibilities? I don't mean to get overly metaphysical about this, but to make this leap is to not really understand just how deep and fragile music is. That it can travel, via electrons, through a maze of electronic componentry and come out the other end sounding anything like the original is truly miraculous. That it should be altered to some degree by any and all the parts of that maze should not be a surprise at all. Science has, for decades, been trying to analyze what it is that makes Stradivarius violins sound the way they do. They have analyzed every single aspect of their makeup; down to analysis of the varnish and glue used, in the hope of being able to replicate their sonic magic. They can't do it. |
Again I am being misunderstood. I AM NOT saying scientist should take a piece of wire in a lab and analyze it, then say if humans can hear it. I am saying this. How do we know what are 'normal' glucose levels in humans? Normal blood pressure? All of these 'norms' are based on studies involving thousands of people. Now, I am saying, let Thousands of people undergo testing setup by compenent people. All over the country with standardized test. Audiophiles are welcome. of course they can't bring their own wire. that would like taking your own cards to vegas! All they need is for ONE person to demostrate he / she is able to hear wire. Once that ONE person is certified as being able to hear wire, this Debate is OVER!! Just ONE!! They will have proven, that at the least, some HUMANS, can hear wire. People in science know how to do controlled tests. These will be people without an agenda. If I had the wherewithal, it would have already been done. Cheers |
Well you speak of these 'men' as if they were 'gods' Rok. As if they know all that there is to know. As in 'turn out the lights, there is nothing more that we can learn/understand'. Well, this post takes the cake. Rock2id and I don't understand that science is evolving? We think everything is already known? And whatever we said about science and engineering has anything to do with Scientology? This has nothing to do with human hearing, this has everything to do with the signals at the opposite end of two properly design cables being identical. Are you seriously saying that two identical signals can produce different sounds out of the same amp or speaker? Seriously? (I'll concede that my use of the term "cure" may have been mostly incorrect, though some cancers are indeed cured by surgery, most do more properly go into remission. My apologies for being imprecise.) Jmc... , you're really reaching. Neither one of us said or implied any of that malarky you're spewing, and I think you know it. I'll also concede that this discussion is no longer entertaining. You've worn me out. I had forgotten what it was like to have a discussion with people who fervently believe the cable lie. Thanks for the reminder. |
Ok, here's a challenge, Rok. If you find yourself in the NYC area, you are welcome to come to my place for a listening session. Here is what I propose: We will listen to the same LP side in its entirety using one of the two wires that I sometimes use between my phono stage and my preamp; Nordost and Siltech. Then, I will step out of my listening room and you will swap the cable for the other; or leave the same one in. The phono stage will be situated in such a way that I won't be able to see which cable is connected. We will do this ten times. I will bet you my Columbia Six-Eye "Kind Of Blue" that I will be able to tell you at least nine out of ten times which cable is in the system. What do I get if I can do it? |
Let me add something to the mix. I spent half my life as a professional musician and I was fortunate to get into the NY recording scene very early and I was doing demos in the 80s up at RCA studios and other famous ones as well. I thought I was pretty much a hotshot and I made my first recording. When I listened to the playback, I was astounded. The playback did not sound at all as good as what I THOUGHT I played - it was much worse. I then realized that I wasn't hearing was I was playing, but hearing what I thought I was playing. Somehow, my brain got into the middle of the ear/music making parts and twisted things around. It took me a long time of playing and listening to playbacks to sync them up to a point where I could hear what I played in real time and it would sound on tape just as I heard it in the studio - but that took time. Time to get that funhouse out of your brain that makes you think you're great when you're not. The brain that makes a skinny woman see herself in the mirror and think she's fat. I can guarantee you the drugs and alcohol were the 3-in-1 oil that kept the ears wired directly to the performance without the freakin brain stickin' it's nose in and convincing you that you're hearing what you played. Maybe this will make some sense to some - once the human mind gets in the middle of things, a lot of strange roads are taken. I think that through years of training, I can actually hear what I'm hearing, uneffected by whatever funhouse mirror the brain adds into the process. I don't think everyone will undertstand this, but I know some of you will. I do respect all of your view though. Rok - I do own a pair of 10 gauge Beldens with welded connectors and they're fine. I could problably live with them and enjoy my music just as much. I don't own any crazy wires, but I do think my ViVa speaker cables make the speakers sound far more open and clear, as if the window to the band is open wider. But when I get bored, I'll go back to the beldens for a few months and enjoy them and then swithch back to the ViVas and did the more open, less hi-fi presentation. Gentlemen and Ladies - please don't let our disagreements divide us. We are predominantly a dying breed, so let's enjoy the waning years. Any of you are invited by to listen to some beatuful music and have a steak. Really. |
