Can't we all just get along?

I have not been a member for a very long time, and joined Agon to discuss audio with others in my hobby. Seems to me that almost every post devolves into a hijacked  negative argument between a few members that seem to think it's their platform to preach their opinions to any who would listen, and any dissent to what they have to say is met with ridicule/insults, and just downright rudeness.

There will always be differences in opinion, BUT, we can be civilized in how we disagree.

There is already too much negativity in the world. Is it not possible to insulate that from our hobby in this forum, or is this what we have become? Hiding behind our keyboards and not having the courtesy to treat our fellow audio lovers with decency, open-mindedness, and RESPECT !

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Yeah, I agree on the whole human nature thing, but these clowns are hiding behind keyboards with total impunity. Imagine, as I do, having such discussions "face to face" with a real live human. We would not act in such a rude fashion. With this new way (internet) of dialog between individuals there is no check valve on speech. If I was in a real live social setting with those that would behave in such an opinionated/rude/disrespectful attitude, I can assure you that they would be seeing the dentist the next day.
This is the time of Trump when only the negative matters to some and is focused on with the lack of respect for others. I dropped out of Audio Asylum because of the attacks on anything I mentioned. This should be a fun hobby with each one of us having our own experiences.
Perhaps this forum should be more about sharing our individual experiences and trying to help one another with questions we may have about gear, our systems etc. than putting on our opposing jerseys and doing battle.
@phillyb I believe this type of behavior preceded Trump. I believe the majority of ‘goners are passionate about our hobby or else why would they hang out in an audiophile forum? Where we differ is on opinion and qualifications. Some here are technically sound engineers, others are crack novice ‘engineers’ (me) and others have a business driven agenda. 

I’ve derived a lot of value from others’ insights however it’s not the final measure as we must consider preferences amongst other things.

for the OP, to raise this topic and proceed to call people clowns and threaten physical violence probably doesn’t help matters...if you don’t like the clap backs from some, just ignore them.
the real problem is people posting things without doing valid listening tests, often things that violate known laws of electricity

so, yes clowns

The condescension sharks are beginning to appear. One so far and the others will start circling shortly. 

@dlcockrum +1!!! I totally agree with the OP that, finally, some folks who feed on negativity, had found yet another platform to feed their needs. Sad... 
I think it is largely a function of the Internet. In my career, now retired, I dealt with a lot of hackers and Internet trolls. Many were these meek individuals in person, but had an entirely different persona behind a keyboard.
There is also an inherent shortcoming in writing postings in a terse, informative way that doesn’t sound condescending. I think sometimes people don’t intend to sound snarky or harsh, but it comes off that way. (True of email sometimes too-).
I agree that one can have a constructive argument without name calling or rancor. Sometimes, though, we are arguing about things that leave little room for consensus. I still like this forum a lot- there are some very well-informed participants, and people are generally willing to help on trouble shooting or system problems.
My view is that you really can’t change other people’s behavior. If someone is constantly obnoxious, eventually others reach the same conclusion. And their views, no matter how strongly held, are given less credence because of the manner of delivery.
My motto in life: do good; be kind. it’s infectious! :) Having survived NYC for 36 years as a lawyer, I don’t know how I got so mellow. I think it is because I was in the mosh pit for so long, I got tired of it. I’m now in laid back Austin, and my type A persona hasn’t completely gone away, but I’m more aware of it than ever in a place where people are pretty gracious.
I agree that some of these threads get side tracked into “ego feats” and people with a need to degradadate others to satisfy their own insecurities. As mentioned above, with the autonomous nature of internet and a moniker to hide behind, that lashing out is only self serving at best. I look at the forum almost everyday in hopes of maybe gathering knowledge to help me in my passion or to participate and maybe share. I am sadly certain that this thread too, will fall victim to someone’s inner desire to lash out in a negative response and attempt to establish his/her point as the absolute point we all must accept as fact not opinion. Yes, civility would be much more enjoyable for all. 
One last point of my own, an analogy if I may, it is not dissimilar to how drivers become brazen and aggressive in their car, but yet meek and mild on foot.

+1 @hifiman5     This is exactly why I joined in the first place.

@whart  you make a good point in regards to how sometimes the intent is not to be snarky or harsh, but it comes off that way due to the medium we are using. No inflection of tone, hand gestures, etc. that we would be able to read if we were face to face. But, there are many times when this is obviously not the case.

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Would like to question the intent of this thread by the OP as he ask "why can't we all just get along", and then states that he would send some one to the dentist. Somethings just need to be ignored and move on.
@tooblue @jl35  +1 to both of you. I understand the frustration of the OP and I concur to a degree, but you can’t then resort to what you are disputing...
Honestly I think people worry too much about this stuff. Just move on when you see something disagreeable. There are enough of us here legitimately trying to share our passion for audio to still make it worthwhile.
The ultimate condescension is the triumph of confirmation bias over engineering.
I thought the OP original thread post was fair but then he sort of shot himself in both feet with his next post which was along the lines of exactly the sort of thing he dislikes. Although it was more in context to a real life meeting , not online it did not help his cause any I fear!
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A few members have pointed out that I have resorted to what I'm complaining about. I have re-read my comments,and yes, you are absolutely  correct.

My bad!! Sorry guys, I was having a really crappy day, and I guess it just got the better of me.

My sincerest apologies.

Wow, talk about the kettle calling the pot black !!


Yep bad days happen, we all get them!
Put some music on, make a pot of tea, sit back and relax....
Works for me.


That's good sound advise !! I think I'll be heading home soon to do just that (still at work. The joys of being self employed) Perhaps I'll substitute the tea for a nice cold beer though :)  Cheers!!


You know us Brits only drink warm
Zoned out on Audioslave right now.


If anyone cares to hear about the rare day I had yesterday. I'll elaborate. It all seems pretty comical today, but it had me in a strange frame of mind yesterday. Perhaps this will be entertaining to some.

First I must say that I am the owner of a welding/fabrication company, and a job that is time critical had myself, and one other employee working through the weekend to get it done for Monday. Said employee decided that yesterday morning was a great time to quit, with no notice. GRRR

Then, A piece of equipment needed for the job died. Ok, so I solve that problem, only to have another issue with incorrect material from one of our suppliers. Solve that problem, and then, (believe it or not) a single engine aircraft crashes in the field right behind my shop !! I kid you not.

Lucky for the pilot, no serious injuries. So, by this point in my day my exasperation is at an all time high. I decide that trying to get anything done with work related issues will be foolish. Sometimes you just have to realize its an off day, and give up. So.... I decide to log in to Agon. First post I visit is, well lets just say, as negative as my day had been. Hence my post.

I know this is way off topic, but I'll bet most can relate to such a crappy day. But... I think I have the bragging rights to a plane crash on my property.

Good news though. Today has been stellar. All work is complete and ready for shipping. Now the new Manley Steelhaed phono stage I ordered last week is well paid for :)

Hope you all have a good week



I suspected as much! We Canadians on the other hand, enjoy our beer as cold as our winters!!!! 


I think one of your comments in regards to my moniker may have been Kyboshed by the moderators. My skin is thick, and I have a great sense of humor as well. Please try again.


I did not get to see the full post you made, and would like to see the whole thing. Don't worry about being judgmental or harsh. If you get too far out of line, well, I may just have to tell Bo where you are !!

Now you will have to be nice :)

I understand the original post and it's intention and spirit I think. I remember when it wasn't so controversial and antagonistic on here. 

I've not been a victim that I can remember, but I'm just a neophyte.

Hope you all enjoy the Holidays!
@crazyeddy I think when an airplane crashes in your backyard all bets are off in every aspect of life. Glad to hear it all turned out ok and also good to see you are the kind of person who can admit being wrong. It's a very rare trait these days. Have a nice relaxing evening!
@crazyeddy   Holy Crap!  Good for you for turning yesterday's lemons into today's lemonade!!  How much property damage did you suffer from the plan crash?🛩

With all of that in mind, you deserve a cold beer...or six!

I will be visiting your wonderful Canadian winter for work very soon...can’t wait!

Kudos to you for manning up and sharing your bad day....can’t say as ever had a plane crash in my back yard, nope.
@crazyeddy- You did what any sane person would have done after a day like that- logged on to the Internet. :) 
Glad to hear all is OK. 

I appreciate your initial post and the explanation of your "bad day". We've all had them and manning up about it is appreciated.


I also appreciate your initial contribution as well as your humor above. The rat race often contributes in a negative way to our interactions. I've been to a few places where people are indeed "pretty gracious" and I want to relocate in hopes I'll become more gracious myself.

Crazyeddy, thanks for starting the thread. I hope it infects us all.
@tooblue the OP answered your question for me.

to Crazyeddy, we definitely all have them. Hope things got straightened out and that you enjoy the Manley...

The fastest way to turn a forum into an all-out brawl is to introduce politics into the mix. Please don’t do it again.
Tomcy6 +10...he (not so) subtly jammed it in there...assuming, in his insulated world (where everyone HE knows agrees with him ...secretly, probably only to stop him from whining) that everyone would be in agreement.

If he had any clue...he’d know, It started way before the demarcation convenient to his world view.
On second Tomcy6 says...just don't do it...again.  Leave it at that.

@Crazyeddy > I can assure you that they would be seeing the dentist the next day

Blindjim > the issue there is that the exact same people would not act the exact same way in person. I’d bet on it.

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@Whart > Many were these meek individuals in person, but had an entirely different persona behind a keyboard.
> people don’t intend to sound snarky or harsh, but it comes off that way. (True of email too

Blindjimn > exactlyI said that in another post recently. Thanks for saying it here.

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Taking the high road is the key IMHO. It is difficult though to ignore blasts from the ill informed or missed inference which explodes from someone not realizing only a portion of a post was pertinent to them, yet they respond as if all of it was directed right at them. Or are goaded into flaming on from their other ill informed cronies..

It was not this way in the past. Anger is an attribute of displayed fear. We fear what we don’t know or are unfamiliar.

Although a plane did not abruptly land in my back yard, nor could it unless it came in nose first straight down, I’ve had some real issues with junkies or crack heads openly selling dope on the corner near my house, or right in front of it at times. Braking into the abandoned house next door routinely for whatever purposes.

I report idiots like these as it is necessary. They don’t care for that at all and have caused me enormous strife for an extended period.

3 times while I was home, these fools tried busting down my door to get in. all I had to defend myself with was a broom at first. It’s a little different now and I think they know it.

It sucks to sleep on the floor. Or with a weapon. Or be armed to just walk out to the road to check your snail mail.

The worst part of it is how long the stress from those invasions lasts. Astonishingly long in fact.

Standing up to the dopers finally got them out of my hair two years later on. Not the local authorities.

Last Friday night, 12.30am, four people began banging on my doors and windows. Yelling and screaming! Get up? Your house is on fire!!

What? Fire? Seriously? Holy…..

I get to the main entryway with a strong deterrent at my side and yell back asking who is there? Voices say Deputies!

They didn’t sound like crack heads so I slid the deterrant under a chair cushion and opened the door. Sure enough. Cops. Many of them saying get out of the house! Its on fire!

Well, crap. Where? Where’s the fire? I said.

They said by the door!

I was doing laundry. Running the dryer. It was about 40F and clouds of condensate was pouring out of the vent. This is what someone mistook as smoke from a house on fire and called the cops. Then two fire wagons pulled up and another wave of responders barged in throwing things around going thru the whole house. Shheessh.

What a mess they made. What a trip.

Now my dryer knows I hate it. Why? Because it is silently, covertly shrinking my clothes.

The evidence is overwhelming. All I want is a sincere apology. It stubbornly stands on the fifth and refuses to incriminate itself. Won’t say a word. Nada.

Knowing my dislike for the appliance is strong, I’ll bet it took the opportunity to billow out more smoke like clouds than usual, just to attract attention and ruin my evening!

Despite the fact there may be a small point of possible culpability on my behalf, I’m gonna focus my ire on the dryer. It works for me. Dumb dryer!! Probably would have been a life long criminal were it human.

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crazyeddie, sounds like (IMHO) on the 'plane event day', after That series of episodes, I'd have called it 'A Day' and tried to go home without any further excitement.   And made sure that any 'cold one' ( or more...) was in aluminum instead of glass.... ;) *G*

blindjim....Retaliate...clotheslines.  *G*  'Course, with crackheads and junkies around, you might have to engage in some 'creative interior decoration'....  Perhaps a new 'take' on 'acoustic modeling'?

"Hanes cotton segmented acoustic panels'....staggered arrays....;)

Sorry....couldn't resist....*G*

I have a personal tendency to try to find some humour 'midst what seems to me to be a more 'relaxed' forum, as noted 'above'....  There's enough 'serious things' happening about us already,  I try to make my 'audio experience'  a Hobby, even a form of Escape....not a Religion...

I have my opinions, Sure.  They may/may not agree with yours,  That's quite normal and pretty much expected with any subject.  If some enjoy 'discussing' the fine points of  cable X v. cable Z to however many pages one who care to carry it on to...well, cool, have at it....

I hang around here to see what other's are thinking, what's 'hot' or not, learn what To or Not Do, and generally try to have a pleasant time.  Toss out a comment or quip, try to 'seem intelligent', keep the 'soapbox time'  to a tolerable minimum, and remember PEBKAC.

Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.

...that hasn't, nor will, ever change....;) 

@hifiman5  No property damage at all. It's just a wide open field behind the shop. Had he come down another few second later, well, it would have been quite bad for all as he was heading towards my building.

@blindjim  Sounds like you had neighborhood was quite sketchy in the past. Can't imagine the stress with the constant worry of the local druggies possible breaking in to your home. Sounds like you've got it under control now. Good for you!

Now, have you considered that your dryer may perhaps be in league with these scoundrels ?? Trying to get you out of your house..... You know, appliances are untrustworthy at the best of times

@crazyeddy > have you considered that your dryer may perhaps be in league with these scoundrels ?? Trying to get you out of your house.....

Blindjim > I’m uncertain at this point if the Maytag is ‘possessed’. I feel it is simply cruel. Albeit, I’m not blameless either. Keeping cookies out of the office would help keep the clothes from shrinking, I think. Maybe. Lil’ bit.

The Thugs used to bang on the windows, ring the doorbells, even start fires in the trash cans, all to get me to come out and ‘play’. If I lived in TX, I would have. Here, its another story so I wait for them inside.

Adding exterior lighting, and a monitored security system helped.

I’m pretty sure taking a couple hours to clean one of my larger deterrents while sitting on my porch in plain view of these idiots sent a fairly clear message. That, and knowing some people in my local law enforcement administration ultimately culled the heard… or has, thus far. I think.

Fingers crossed!!

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@asvjerry > you might have to engage in some 'creative interior decoration'....

Blindjim > things have certainly changed. Inside and out. One might call it decorating. Thanks for the ideas.
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@kosst_amojan > Can somebody explain to me how this topic is technical talk? Would I be mistaken in thinking these threads are just soap boxes?

Blindjim > these things come in waves. Maybe the next wave will drag us back onto the technical rationale of the human experience as it exists under duress and enormous stresses. The soapboxes are only there to keep our heads above the prevailing water levels the inadvertent flooding has provided.

. All work and no play ….. we all know that one and how it turns out.
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Everyone has this option:
Skip what this or that person’s remarks are when they see their handle in a thread.


We could all simply lighten up a bit and practice tolerance.

Interjecting or trying to infuse a bit of humor isn’t a bad thing at all. Anything however can become monotonous and eventually disparaging if it becomes chronic, inane, or mindless.

Texture. Its how much or how little we reveal ourselves to others that adds depth and feeling to the discourse at hand.

Reading how many electrons move or don’t move, how deep the bit depth is, or how extended the dynamic range is with this sampling rate or that, without relief at all, is boring stuff.

IMHO, Reading another person’s experiences with this or that, and how they merged or set it up here or there, now that has more tangibility. Its easier to relate to practical things than sheer theory and self declared specifications for this piece or that.
Another member made a significant point recently on these pages as they said, to know the review or device best one should find out about the writer or designer.