Well this just goes to show that people do hear things differently and outcomes can be system and people specific. I use the Mullard GZ 37 which replaced the stock RCA rectifier tube. The Mullard has been simply excellent in my opinion.
I have owned my Frankenstein MK II for 8 years and appreciate them more than ever. Superb amplifiers with appropriate speakers.
Charles |
Hi 1markr,
Congratulations on being a Frank owner. They are wonderful amps. Like you said they really sound big and powerful for an 8 watt amp, don't they.
IMS, The Mullard GZ37 weren't edgy at all.
They have the nicest midrange and if anything they are a little rolled off in the treble compared to my Tungsol 5u4gb and Sylvania 5931.
I also changed the coupling caps to Jupiter copper foil, so maybe the difference of opinion.
I really like the Takatsuki TA-300b tubes the best in the Franks, but they are very expensive.
Enjoy the amps they are excellent!
Joe |
Hey folks, I am coming to this game late (better late than never!), but I have recently joined the ranks of you Frankenstein mkII owners. I am running them with my Omega Super Alnico HO monitors, which are rated at 97 db, playing in a rather large room (25' wide x open in back, x vaulted ceiling that peaks around 12'). At 8wpc, wow, they sure play loud enough, and I like peaks in the low 90 db range!
Anyways, lots of good info contained here. I am looking for any updates / recommendations on the rectifier tubes that are being used with these amps, with either the EML 300bXLS and Shuguang Black Treasure 300bs, which I have. I like the RCA black plate 6EM7 over the GE gray plate 6EM7s that came with the amp. I have tried the Mullard GZ37 with the EML, but that seemed like a bit too much, and too edgy for me. Now using Sylvania black plate 5U4GBs, and the sound is smoother.
What others work "best" with the EML or BT? |
Oh I see, I imagine both of them sound quite well with your Hornings.
Charles, |
Charles, I traded in the J2 for the XA-30.8
Best,
Joe |
Hello Joe, you've described the wonderful pairing of the Frankenstein and Eufrodites. Do plan to keep both your F.W.J2 and the Pass XA30.8 ?
Charles, |
Charles,
Hopefully, that's what these sites are all about my friend. To help each other with honest and valued insight.
I know I get that from you and others, but we should always try to listen for ourselves, if at all possible. |
Joe,
I'm glad you were able to provide ajant what I know is valuable and thoughtful perspective.
Charles, |
I think that Dracula amplifier would sound much better.
|
Hi ajant,
I sent you a PM did you receive it. |
My listening levels are around 75 to 95db. Hi Snopro, Charles1Dad said to consult you on the FW J2 amp vs. a 300B power amp or mono blocks (in my price range) to drive >95db speakers at low to moderate levels. There’s a great discussion on Pass amps like the XA30.5 and 30.8 here https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/pass-labs-amps-and-avantgarde-speakers And please see my post there for more details about my room and listening situation. My two way speakers plus powered subs use Azura 425 horns and GPA Altec 416 midwoofers, and are at least 95db.
If you no longer have the J2 perhaps you still recall what’s its sonic characteristics were like versus a good 300B SET amp. Thanks.
|
Snopro, don't think you need to put them in the corners. |
Tbg, I do have the 2 back audio points where the transformers sit. |
Snopro, the location of the Star Sound Audio Points under the component can make a great difference. If possible get one directly under the ac transformer. |
Thanks for the reply, guys! Looking forward to break-in.
Best,
Joe |
Hi Joe,
Congratulations! I have owned the Takatsuki-TAs for 2 years and loved
them immediately with my first listening encounter. I'd agree with Brf in
that by 120-150 hours they'll be fully burned in. You can genuinely enjoy
them during this process, as the sound just continues to mature and
improve. I happily rotate these Japanese gems with my EML XLS and AVVT
32b tubes. The Frankenstein MK II sings with all three of them.
Joe a subtle adjustment with your Apprentice stands may be
advantageous. In my system they increased transparency, clarity and
openness yet tone and body remained full and harmonically rich. Biggest
impact occurred with the speakers.
Charles, |
Sonpro, my good friend just bought the TA-300B tubes. They sounded good out of the box, but took 150 hours before they sounded incredible. You are in for a treat. |
I just received my Takatsuki TA-300b tubes. They sound very nice right out of the box. How many hours before they really shine?
I also bought the star sound tech. apprentice stands. They added clarity and good separation especially in the treble, but I lost some tonal density. They did improve after a week, but I'll give Robert a call. I think you can adjust the sound loosening or tightening the cones. |
Charlie
As Joe said, I think you should have 5u4gb not 5u4g. One time I asked to Coincident whether I can use 274b tube in the 5u4g slot. His answer was like this: i do not recommend it since its voltage rating is less than a 5U4 Gb and the power supply of the Franks is very large."
Haha yes...probably I will consider the virtual system as you recommended.
Charlie/Joe
Have you ever heard anything good/bad about Audio Horizon's tube?
Best regards,
Wu |
Wu,
You have an exceptional and unique system, you should consider postlng it in the virtual systems with pictures.
Charles |
Joe,
I've used Andy before and he was fine I'll give him a call. I was under the
impression that the franks could use 5u4g or 5u4gb, I'll check that out.
TheSylvania 5931 sseems interesting as well.
Thanks,
Charles, |
Charles,
I bought my Tung-Sol 5u4gb's from Andy at Vintage Tube Services. He is very good and stands behind his tubes.
I don't think the Franks can use 5u4g's
Joe |
Charles,
Yes I think my current system is producing a sound I like. I have owned various speakers just like everybody else here, and solution/dartzeel shine with some speakers, but not with voxativ (according to both many reviewers and the manufacturer). This was my first SET and I am much more than happy with the match. I still miss the ultra fast speed of s oulution and the near perfect combination of musicality and power of dartzeel , but I would not go back to them as long as keeping the voxativ.
You can always ask Dave in Arizona Tube Supply in eBaynregarding the tungsol. I recently bought matched nos pair from him.
Best regards,
Wu |
Wu and Joe,
Where did you get the Tong Sol 5u4g rectifiers, I'd like to try them.
Thanks, |
Wu,
I don't question your findings in any way, we can only report what we hear.
The EML XLS and mesh were a complete joy in my system. Your system is very interesting and must sound exceptionally good. Did you move from Soulution/Dartzeel to SET? If so what's different and would you go back?
Charles, |
It has Charles, just compared to the Pvsane it has the qualities I described and I mentioned organic: wink.
Best,
Joe |
Joe,
I don't believe that the 6em7 offers much in choice availability.
I thought you'd notice more organic sound from the EML as it acquired hours. It has what I'd call natural warmth rather than 'adding' warmth. The KR 300 XLS is definitely warmer but I feel that the EML XLS is the more natural and honest.
Charles, |
Hi Charles,
Yes I definitely agree that we all listen to music in our own ways. Probable reasons I have the discrepant opinion on the EML were I) mine is EML 300BM (mesh), not XLS (I am not sure how they are different though), and ii) my ears are somewhat familiar with fast SS amps such as Soulution and Dartzeel. My current system is really simple. The Frankensteins are fed by DCS Vivaldi DAC and they drive Voxativ Amppeggio Signature. These are not most popular ones, but I am extremely fascinated by this 101dB, 11 ohm, single driver speakers. In my system, the 16 ohm tap is much better than the 8 ohm just like you said. While comparing those two taps, I felt the similar thing I noticed when I exchanged Tung-Sol rectifier to EML 5u4g. (if you are still tempted by the EML, you already know who is going to sell them to you Haha!) Thanks for the stock specification of the fuse.
@Isochronism Hahaha
Hi Joe,
Yes I bought the pair directly from Japan where one of my friends lives. I cannot say anything exactly because it seems the -XLS could be quite different than the -M, but the Takasuki is at least worthwhile to try in my opinion. Yes they are expensive...but we may have to spend much more money to achieve the same amount of improvements one can expect from the Takasuki-Just my thought.
My experience about the input tubes are very limited. Just tried GE NOS and Sylvania NOS, but didn't hear the difference.
Happy listening! |
Hi Wu,
I tried a few different rectifiers and liked the Tung-Sol 5u4gb and Sylvania 5931 the best. The Sylvania is a beautiful built tube.
The Pvsane hi-fi 300b which came with the amps weren't bad, but the EML 300b XLS tubes are much better. They are more extended in the bass and treble have a organic,lively, open, sound which is very engaging. They don't sound slow to me.
I would love to try the Takasuki tubes some day, but are very expensive.
I changed the fuses to AMR gold fuses which sounded a little more natural. Sorry didn't try the Hi-fi Supremes.
Did anybody try different 6em7 tubes?
Wu, where did you purchase the Takasuki tubes, can you buy them straight from Japan? You can answer on my system page if you like.
I'm very happy with my Franks! |
Am breaking in a wartime Tung Sol 5u4g rectifier tube as we speak to be used with Sylvania 6SN7GT Badboys real soon. Speaking of fuses, anyone try the new Audio Magic Super Fuse? There appears to be several fuse manufacturers vying for the top spot... |
I wonder if any of you had any problems convincing your significant other that the amplifiers you were about to buy did not sound anything like their name implied? |
Hi Wu,
Thanks for your impressions especially regarding the EML rectifier 5u4g. I
have thought about it but hesitated due to the cost of them .
We all hear differently as has been said many times. I really admire the
Takatsuki ( that's no secret) but in my system the EML XLS just shines and
competes with the Takatsuki closely. I don't hear the short comings you
point out. I'm happy to have both as well as the AVVT 32b. All three make
beautiful music in my Frankenstein. As far as rectifier tubes are concerned
I've used the Sylvania and RCA and didn't notice a significant difference.
Wu what speakers are you using with your Frankenstein? I've only used the
Synergistic Research Quantum fuses and they are an improvement in the
amplifier. 3 amp slow blow.
Charles, |
Charles/Joe,
Thank you for the useful discussion about the tubes on the Frankenstein Mk ii. I just want to add my 2 cents because I had chance to try some rectifiers (RCA 5U4GB, Tung-sol 5U4GB, and EML 5U4GM), and output tubes (Psvane 300BT, 300BT-II, EML 300BM, and Takatsuki TA-300B).
To my ear, the Tung-sol/Takatsuki was the best by far out of all the combinations I have tried.
Rectifier: the RCA 5U4GB was the close second. As for the EML 5U4GM...I don't know... it added little more bass to my system, but that was all. It immediately killed three dimensionality, dynamics and transparency which had been easily conveyed by the Tung-sol.
Output tubes: In my system, the sound from Psvane was fast and nimble which I enjoyed. EML 300BM added more liquidity,musicality and authority in the bass, but it was not my cup of tea-little too slow. Takatsuki? As soon as putting them into the slots...I immediately talked to myself; That's it. Beautiful texture in every frequency range, significant musicality, no artificial exaggeration at the bottom (which I felt from EML 300BM), but still fast and tight notes with excellent tonal balance. I think this is the very best.
By the way, have you ever tried HiFi Tuning Supreme fuses for the amp? I would appreciate if you can give me any comments on that. Do you know the specfication of stock fuses?
Thanks!
Wu |
"I stopped analyzing and just enjoy the music" Joe, you couldn't have summed it up any better than that. If you get the Takatsuki you'll be very pleased but I've really come to realize how good the EML XLS is. The truth is that you can't go wrong with either of these fine tubes. Regarding fuses, the Synergistic Research Quantum is an excellent replacement in the Frankenstein. Good to know the AMR works out well also.
Charles, |
Hi Charles,
Yeah, I put AMR gold fuses in. It was a worthwhile improvement. I'm loving
the amps, after 35 years in this hobby I finally am really content with my
system.
It sounds so natural, organic, and so full of life. I stopped analyzing and
just enjoy the music. I'm in a good place right now,thanks to you and others
on this forum!
I played around with different rectifiers and like the tung-sol 5u4gb and
sylvania 5931 the best. After the holidays I'll try and spring for the
Takatsuki's, but the EML 300b XLS are very nice.
Best,
Joe |
Hi Joe,
Did you ever try different fuses in your Frankensteins? I hope the amp turned out to be what you were expecting.
Charles, |
Charles, I'll give Israel a call mine look like 1.6 amp, but it's hard to make out. |
Joe I'm not home right now but believe the fuse is 3 amps, slow blow and the short length version. The fuse is very essy to access on the rear of the amp. |
Hi Joe, thanks for sharing your impressions of these two fine amps. At 150 hours your Frankenstein will gain some gradual but noticeable improvement. The Takatsuki, Sophia Royal Princess are a "bit" warmer sounding and likely so is the Psvane WE Replica. I find the EML to be an excellent top to bottom tube with exceptional drive and dynamic abilities(still organic and not analytical). It plays to the strengths of the Frank's openess, tansparency and lack of colorations. Israel really likes the Psvane so it must be very good.
Charles, |
Hi Charles,
If you mean main differences in sound, the two amps don't sound vastly different. The First Watt is Class A single- ended using Jfet output transistors, which is a pretty rare bird.
The amp circuit acts somewhat like a tube amp. The amp loses half it's output at 4ohms & 16ohms. With my Druids V I only have 13 watts of power, which was plenty.
They are both lively engaging amps. The J2 goes deeper and has more slam. The Franks have better texture.The leading edge is more pronounced but does not have the sustain of the Franks on the trailing edge. Midrange is pretty close. The Franks are more liquid sounding with more air. Both amps have excellent treble. I think the Franks with the EML 300b XLS tubes gives a little more extension and refinement. The J2 has a touch more grain.
They both throw a wide deep layered soundstage and have excellent see thru qualities, which extracts very fine details and you can see deep into the soundstage.
I really enjoy both amps and will keep them both. Hopefully with more time the Franks midrange will flesh out even more. Would love to hear the old WE 300b & your Takatsuki's.
Can you tell me what is the fuse size? I would like to upgrade the fuses.
Best,
Joe |
Joe,
What were the main differences you noticed or had to accommodate /
adjust to between the First Watt(25watt SS) and the Frankenstein amplifiers
(8 watt tube) if any ? Very different designs that I find interesting.
Charles, |
Joe,
That's understandable, my speaker is a 14 ohm load. The sound is very good with the 8 ohm tap but becomes even more dynamic,alive, engaging and dimensional when connected to the 16 ohm tap. The sense of ease and flow are increased. |
My speakers are 16 ohms. I'm using the 16 ohm taps.
I first ordered the Decware, but cancelled the order for the Franks.
People who have them love them, personally I haven't heard them. FYI
Decware is coming out with a Torii IV. |
Joe,
Curious, what is the ohm load of your speakers and are you using the 8 or the 16 ohm tap?
I tried both and preferred the 16 ohm tap (each requires some breah in) this will obviously vary depending on the speakers in use.
Did you audition the Decware Tori amp in your system?
Charles, |
Hi Joe,
I'm glad you remained patient and allowed the Frankenstein to burn-in and
evolve as it naturally does. Those custom transformers really need time to
open up and demonstrate what they're capable of. Your overall impression
is identical to mine in that the key terms used to describe what you hear are
"natural", realism, presence and organic.
The news gets better as your Franks are going to improve further regarding
opening up , nuance, dynamics at all levels and become even more organic
and effortless in presentation.
I was very interested in your response to the Frankenstein in that your
reference was a First Watt amplifier (exceptional amp) and I knew there'd
be a different sound/presentation. The question would be which do you
prefer and which one connects/involves you more emotionally to your
music. The Frankenstein is truly a superb SET 300b amp and I'm happy to
read it worked out very well for you. You can't predict what someone else
may like regardless of how much joy a component has given you. You
have to listen and judge for yourself.
Charles, |
Update: I have around 150 hours on the amps and they are sounding much better! They opened up nicely with a refined natural tonal balance, good separation and layered depth. Bass is tuneful and goes pretty deep, very good for a SET amp. The midrange is starting to really sound organic with nice flow. Highs are extended,airy, with a natural decay.
Notice I keep using the word natural, because it is the opposite of cold, dry, thin, grainy, sterile, hyper detailed sound. Don't misunderstand and think the amps are slow, syrupy, and lacking detail. Further from the truth, it just portrays acoustic music in a natural believeable way.
They are keepers and supposedly will get even better with more time!
Joe |
Hi Onemug,
I`m begining to understand your admiration for EML tubes.The more my EML XLS accumulates playing time the better it sounds, I`m truly enjoying this tube steadily more as time passes by.It`s powerful and dynamic yet has refinement and suave musical grace.
Charles, |
Yes, it is a gorgeous tube when lit. Thanks for the heads up!If I'm ever ready to purchase, I'll make sure it's compatible in my amps. |
Snopro,
I use the EML 5u4g. Gorgeous tube at night (meshplate as you may already
know) and yes, it is huge.
Sound: In my 300b SET, I think they are among the best I've heard. I also like
and use vintage RCA's. Can't speculate how they would sound in your Franks.
5u4g and 5u4gb are slightly different. Some amps can use either, some can't.
Make sure yours can if you decide to get a pair. |
Yeah, those EML rectifiers sure look pretty. Maybe somebody on the forum will let us know how they sound.
Joe |
