I love the old originals but still like what I hear on this reissue. Most of the originals sound compressed and although the tone can be very nice on many of the originals, I find myself listening to more reissues than the older records lately. The Classic reissues are very good for the most part, there quality control is often lacking IME.
The newer Mobile Fidelity reissues are a different story. They sound very digital and forward. I prefer many of the originals to them.
The Chesky reissues are nice. They sound closer to the original and are more dynamic and quiet. Better quality vinyl as well. I like the Cheskys very much. I like the Cheskys much better than the Classics for the most part.
I do not like all of the Classics but many of them are pretty good and this one in particular is very quiet and dynamic. It sounds great. I am going to listen to it again and see if I hear what you are talking about.
As far as tone goes, I have never heard violins sound like they do on the old RCA's and Londons. I used to have season tickets to the orchestra. If I had to say what records actually sound closest to what I hear at the music hall, I would say the Living Presence Mercurys come the closest. Of course, I am not up on stage either, I was 12 rows from the pit in the center. The violins always sounded kind of dull and rolled off. They never sounded like they do on record or CD. They always sound overdone on record to my ears, but I don't mind it. |
Tzh21y - to which reissue are you referring when you say you hear no hardness? I may have confused things by referencing LSC-1934 in your post about the Dvorak.
In terms of my tracking force, I don't recall the number exactly, but it's within the range specified by Lyra. But my setup isn't the problem. The original LSC-1934, which I'm now playing, sounds delightful, with no hardness problem. And the horns show no sign of hardness either with the original (and they sound spectacular!)
I should also point out that that the hardness was also evident with other cartridges I've owned (Clearaudio Sigma, Clearaudio Victory, Lyra Helikon).
In an earlier post I mentioned that I was originally impressed with the Classics, but their flaws became more apparent as my system improved. Also, the originals showed me how far the Classics strayed. Once you hear how the strings are supposed to sound on these - especially on a system that does a great job of reproducing tone colors, it's really tough to tolerate the Classics. |
If you mean me: VTF is 1.74g for my AT33PTG (AT specifies 1.6-2.0g with 1.8g "standard".) Why I arrived at that particular number is lost in the mists of time.
My VTA is set to be neutral on a typical Lp. I didn't bother adjusting VTA for the 180g thickness. Too much of a pain with the SME309.
I have to admit that after listening to side 2 the brightness is much more apparent. I prefer the smoother sounding CD layer of the SACD (or rather the rip to FLAC played via Squeezebox and my Neko DAC).
To get back to the original topic, I also played my London STS copy of Monteux's Dvorak 7 this morning, and it's an excellent sounding Lp, though I don't have the original RCA to compare it to. This pressing should go for a few bucks at most at Amoeba or Record Surplus. |
I have to admit that I am not hearing that hardness or pushed highs. The horns sound like they have body, and so do the strings. The clarinet sounds wonderful on this reissue. I like the way it sounds. I was actually very suprised upon first hearing it. What is your tracking force set at? Could they be better? Yes, definitely, Do I prefer it to CD? Absolutely. They were better on 180 gram, not sure why, but to my ears they are. The record has depth and better mids a hundred times over than my Cds. Some of the older records sound much more compressed and have more surface noise than this record. |
Had a chance to compare the Classic Lp reissue of the Reiner Concerto for Orchestra with the CD layer of the BMG hybrid SACD issue. Please disregard my earlier comment about deficiencies of the recording. It's not "modern" sounding, but I have no complaints.
Now, is the Classic too bright? Maybe a little. With all tubes (except the SS phono board) and Vandies nothing here offends me, though I can hear that it is mastered for "brilliance".
The CD layer sounds cleaner and so more hall ambiance comes through. The Classic has plumper bass. But both seem quite satisfying to me. I would consider the Classic a very successful Lp mastering. |
OK, now I've looked up what LSC-1934 is (Reiner's Concerto for Orchestra). Am I supposed to have these catalog numbers memorized?
I have the Classics reissue as well as the BMG hybrid SACD. I remember the Classics Lp and the BMG CD layer sounding remarkably similar (I was not that impressed with the sound in either case; I think RCA engineers were still learning to record in stereo at this point). I'll have to try both with my current equipment. |
I just compared the CD layer of the hybrid SACD of LSC-1934 to the 180g Classic. The Classic sounds decent until the treble gets pushed. The massed strings that appear about 3 minutes in are absolute ear bleeders. And so are the trumpets that blare a bit later.
I hear a better sense of the hall with the CD rip. The stage doesn't have as much depth on the LP. There's more air around the drum in the 2nd movement with the CD rip.
The Classic sounds fuller and makes the CD sound thin. I can see some folks preferring the Classic because of this. But, the sound of those massed strings and those trumpets are an absolute deal kiler for me.
Chashas1 makes a good point about my room and my gear. I have changed every component except my speakers since buying that Classic. I've changed rooms too. The strings on the Classic sounds as dreadful to me now as they did when I first played that LP. |
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Gentle Reader,
take note of Kennyb's statement above...I disagree with his assessment, compared to what I've heard. Perhaps in his room, with his gear, it sounds like that, and if we all zoomed into his room right now we would find him correct and that would be that...however, I have played that LP on a few systems I've liked, and did not hear the horrors he describes, nor would I choose the cd version over it.
just an observation....tzh21y...listen for yourself, then judge.. |
I agree with you about Classic. I have wrote many threads regarding what you have said, especially their quality control has been lacking. I was suprised to hear such a quiet classic reissue. I have been very disappointed with many of their reissues. I am not sure why the strings sound the way they do. How they got that so right in the fifties, I was not born yet. On the classic 180 gram reissues, the strings sound better than on the 200 gram. I still have not heard a cd sound like a record, even the classic 200 gram sound better than the cd, to my ears at least.
The Dvorak does sound great and is very quiet. I was suprised. The fact that you prefer the original release tells me that they still have issues. I like my copy better than the original. I can hear more of what is going on and the strings sound pretty good as well, maybe not the same as the original, but very good IMO.
I have the Bartok on SACD. That is an amazing work. I have never seen that original record locally. This is the case with many of the older living stereos, most of which are in terrible condition. I have tried ebay, not much better. So the reissues are the only way to go in some cases. |
I initially thought highly of many Classic reissues. Now they just sit on my shelf taking up space. As my system's ability to reproduce tone colors has improved, these sound worse and worse, which is odd, because most of my other records I appreciate more and more. A large reason for this is due to the way that the Classics destroy string tone. A good example is the reissue of LSC-1934. There is no acoustic instrument on this planet that can make as dreadful a sound as the massed strings on this. That reissue is an abomination.
Before you spent much more on more Classics, I thought you should hear how the Classics compare to originals so you can hear what's missing.
I even prefer the CD layer on the hybrid SACDs to the Classics RCAs. These are a great way to hear these wonderful recordings. |
I have tried to find the early pressings of the Living Stereos and about 75% of the time, they are not in very good condition. I wish they were because they do sound great. My comment was more about the fact that for a Classic reissue, this one is one of the best they have done so far, that I have heard at least. I just wish I could come across some originals in great condition. |
Just to add to Kennyb's point, this Dvorak is also available as a UK Treasury too. Excellent in itself. |
Do yourself a favor and track down a copy of the original issue on eBay. Compare this to your Classic reissue before you buy any more Classic RCA reissues. In particular listen for string tone and tonal colors.
I just compared my 180g Classic to my original pressing. That will be the last time I listen to the Classic. The Classic had quieter surfaces and was more dynamic, but the tonal colors were not nearly as rich and natural.
Many of the Living Stereo titles are available in the RCA VICS series. These are reasonably priced and sound quite good. Snag as many of these as you can. |
This particular reissue sounds amazing. The record plays very quiet as well. I do not know how the original compares. I wish I could find the originals in decent condition. They are almost always fairly worn locally which is disappointing, but for a dollar, well worth taking the chance. It is a great recording and a great performance. |
I have an orange label (British pressing) London STS copy. Can anyone comment on how this compares to other pressings. |
I just $1 for another copy of the original last week. I'll cherry pick the copy I want to keep and throw the others in my give away pile. |
I cannot believe it. A couple of weeks ago when I bought this record from Elusive Disc it was $34.00. Now it is $50.00. I would hate to think a thread could influence this type of thing. |
The lp number is LSC-2489 |
yes, it's very nice...at first when you said sym #2, I thought Istvan Kertesz, on London...that's the real #2...last movement, always a doozey...Your #7 is also a great piece, a little moody, then with #8 you get lots of orchestral fun, and then of course with #9 (old #5) one of the most popular pieces in orchestral history...
enjoy! |
The reason this is still listed as No 2 is the record was issued originally issued in 1961 and the Classic is preprinting the original jacket. I am a bit surprised that they are reissuing this as it is a fairly common record. This is probably my favorite Dvorak orchestral piece the influence of Brahms is strong.
Another new issue on LP of Dvorak is Tacets release of the String Sextet. A friend brought this over and its extremely well recorded and a lovely piece of music. |
I bought one because of the this thread. THe quality is very good and well worth the money. |
Do you have the record number? So I might go to the store and look for it. |
Using the old numbering is kind of silly of them. This is the Dvorak Symphony No. 7 in the new numbering, which is the numbering that record companies have been using for almost 50 years.
But, yes, it's a great recording of the work. I have it on a Universal Japan CD. |
