Does anyone have any experience with the AF61 model?
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I spent more than 2 hours listening to a pair AF61s at one of the Elac distributors in the SF Bay Area. They sounded very nicely. I personally would have liked a bit more bass extension and found that the high frequency response was a bit too brassy. When I pointed this out, the person who was demonstrating the speakers said that the brassiness may be due to the fact that the speakers were not completely burned in. He then proceeded to change the configuration of the electronics. According to him, when I was listening to the speakers, the DAC was connected directly to the power amplifier. He then connected the DAC to a preamp and the preamp to the amplifier. The sound seems to have improved, both at the lower and high frequency ends, but unfortunately I had to leave and did not have enough time the evaluate the speaker with the revised electronics configuration. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the name of the equipment that powered the speakers, but it was supposed to be of very high quality. Even under my limited audition, I liked the Elac AF61 a lot a may consider buying them. I would like to first listen to a pair of Magico A3s and, if possible, to a pair of Tekton Electrons. |
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Dear James_w514, Thank you for your explanation regarding the effect of aluminum drivers in enhancing the brassiness of speakers. Now that you mentioned it, I recall having the same impression when I was auditioning a pair of paradigm prestige 85Fs, which also have aluminum drivers. I have always been somewhat sensitive to the sound of loud trumpets and other brass instrumentes. |
I had an unfortunate experience with an 'unbroken in' pair of Adante at my local shop. I wanted to try something with concentric driver and compared the Adante with KEF LS50 and R300. Factoring out the unbroken in factor, I'd say you really have to listen to and confirm that you like the metallic concentric tweeter sound. The Adante and L50 both were too bright and harsh for me though not the R300. The R300 similarly with a 3way woofer I did not like the crossover between the bass woofer vs concentric midrange woofer, it was like the bass driver was constantly competing against the midrange driver. I'd imagine similar concern with Adante. |
I had an unfortunate experience with an 'unbroken in' pair of Adante at my local shop. I wanted to try something with concentric driver and compared the Adante with KEF LS50 and R300. Factoring out the unbroken in factor, I'd say you really have to listen to and confirm that you like the metallic concentric tweeter sound. The Adante and L50 both were too bright and harsh for me though not the R300. The R300 similarly with a 3way woofer I did not like the crossover between the bass woofer vs concentric midrange woofer, it was like the bass driver was constantly competing against the midrange driver. I'd imagine similar concern with Adante. Most accounts I've read claimed the R300 is the brighter speaker. |
The R300 does measure decently well, but the article linked below is very extensive test of the R300 coax driver. http://medleysmusings.com/kef-r300-midrange-drive-unit-testing/ In the testing, it was noted the speaker demonstrating a flare at 5-6khz, which would certainly correlate with what has mentioned. The LS50 is also a very extended design and does display an elevated treble response. But if comparing the LS50 and R300, the LS50 will no doubt sound brighter due to its response curve and the lack of balance in bass. Some other reviews also noted the R300 integration not being quite whole between the drive units, and in specific the bass to mids. Haven't heard the Adante, but the very first measurements show a bit of flare from 8-12khz. Enough that it will likely be a bit airy sounding on good recordings but hot recordings won't be so enamored. You won't get consensus on treble response in speakers as we all have notably differing hearing abilities, especially as we age. I experience a little above average relative to age, others I know are at or below. |
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In the testing, it was noted the speaker demonstrating a flare at 5-6khz, which would certainly correlate with what has mentioned. The LS50 is also a very extended design and does display an elevated treble response. But if comparing the LS50 and R300, the LS50 will no doubt sound brighter due to its response curve and the lack of balance in bass. Are the rising treble responses due to the tweeter living inside of the midrange? |
A couple of points just because a loudspeaker uses a particular material doesn't mean it is going to sound a particular way. We had the Vivid line all aluminum drivers and they never sounded hollow at all. Same with the Kef Blades and the Kef Reference and R series. There is a difference to what we would term hollow and being a bit forward. The Paradigm Prestige are a bit forward they are also incredibly exciting and visceral loudspeakers when driven correctly. The hollowness that we hear with the Elacs is probably more due to cabinet construction then anything else, yes the cabinets are well braced but I don't think there is any stuffing inside the speakers, and that may be the culprit. The Elac Adante will require an amplifier which is the inverse of the speaker, meaning slightly fat in the upper midrange and a tad rolled off in the upper treble. The Kef R 300 sound fantastic and are less bright then the LS 50 because they have a lot more bass and are a true three way speaker. We have never noticed any lack of coherency with the R 300 perhaps the stands were too tall. We sell a lot more Kef R 500 which are just terrific due to the fact that the R 300 plus stands is approaching the more full range R 500. In terms of Adante vs Legacy Calibres, no contest, the Legacy's are extraordinary, with unbelievable build quality, and every part is extremely expensive including the crossover components. Driver quality is off the charts. The Legacy is smoother, with better defined bass, and a glowing rich midrange. They are more like a $10k plus monitor in the league with the TAD ME 1 for half the price. They are that good! The Adante is going to be a good speaker once people find out exactly the right components to use with it. The issue is going to be too many people are going to think sure it is an Andrew Jones design and therefore is will be killer and use the speaker with any old gear, this is not the case with Adante. The Adante is a lot of speaker for the money, it will require a lot of time and investment in generally way better equipment then what is traditionally used in a $2,500.00 monitor. Most likely a tube amplifier is what is going to work with Adante, or a very warm solid state amplifier and a laid back source. We are still working with our demo pair and it has been busy lately so once we have had a bit more time with them we will report what combo is making magic with them. An Arcam amp with the Class G amps are going to work well, Naim should also work, as well as Prima Luna and Rogue. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Dave and Troy - just out of curiosity, do you guys consider the average speaker to sound great (80-90% if it’s full performance) with almost any amp/preamp/etc, or do you truly believe every speaker is like this Adante, where you (supposedly) have to seek out the perfect synergy to get them to sound good? Obviously, I think any good well designed speaker should and will sound 80-90 to its potential with virtually any setup behind it, even cheap gear. |
We don't believe that any speaker will automatically sound good no matter what is matched with. That is like saying any high performance car engine will work in any car, take a Ferrari F40 engine and put in a Pinto did you accheive the Ferrari's performance? The reason a Ferrari perfoms like a Ferrari is that it is designed as a system. If you take any part away from it and it you will not get the performance the system as intended to deliver. There are really two types of speakers, high resolution designs and low resolution designs. The two camps can be summed up as Ribbon, Beryillium, Diamond drivers = High Resolution. Soft domes tweeters, paper cones, bextrine and certain polypropolyne lower resoloution. This is where system matching comes in: Higher resolution speakers require complete elimantion of hash, and must be mated with smoother sounding electronics. VS Lower Resolution speakers which require brighter sounding electronics, cables etc. Hope that helps. It is interesting to see how opinions vary, many people who heard the Adante at CES were blown away by them with Audio Alchemy electronics, and the Hifi News review I don't remember what they used with the speakers but they were blown away by the Adantes vs other people's opinions which are widly differing. We have not yet passed judgement on just how good the Adante's actually are. So far they are intriguing speakers that do certain things well, with our ultimate buy judgement not yet given. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Another thing Contuzzi, when we went shopping for reference electronics for the Kef Blades, and Personas, we listened to many different combinations of electronics before finding electronics which made the speakers come alive. On the Kef Blades we tried Parasound JC 1 which were medeocre at best, the Electrcompaniet AW 400 which were better, then the Chord mono blocks which were far better than the other amps, we tried Hegel, Thrax, Conrad Johnson. The system which sounded the best was the T+A gear which combined the speed of the Chord and detail with a slightly warmer richer more tube like midrange. What is evident is that all of our reference speaker systems the Polymer Research a $68k speaker, the Kef Blades a $32k speaker, the Paradigm 9H a $35k set of speakers didn't sound magical on far less expensive electronics, it was only when matched with really good gear, cables and source components did we hear a sound that was really compelling. So back to the car analogy purchase a Ferrari or Porsche and say it comes time for new tires and you don't want to spend the money on really good tires you won't get the performance the car can offer with cheaper tires. The higher the performance evelope the better everything else must be in order to deliver it. Your 9H on the Anthem separates is a far cry from the 9H on the T+A gear. Now if your thinking just because something is expensive doesn't mean you are guaranteed performance either, it is a matching game and we have heard expensive gear that wasn't worth the price. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Audiotroy , when I listen to them at Axpona they are well balance sounding speakers, clarity, soundstage are exceptional, I did not hear hollow midrange, maybe the Audioquest cabling did match well producing solid beautiful midrange, and the vocals are amazing as well, if I remember they are using audioalchemy gears.if you can find the right gears and cabling for the Adante they will give you that live sounding music, they are that good. |
Well, after I wrote it, I thought 10k to 2k , markalaesen. In any event a speaker can only tell you how your system is . I have more than once been called in rich friends houses to tell then what twenty K speaker they should move up to . I usually end getting a 500 buck power cord from my car for their amp that saves them 19,500 $ . |
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I bought a pair of Elac AS61 about 3 weeks ago at first I thought they were a bit toppy but now after running them in with a new amp, wow and WOW ! the top is smooth and detail is all there. I run them with a Wyred 4 sound ST1000 and the sound is so smooth. Previously I was running maggies and the mid on the Elac is much better. Before laying my money down I compared them to B&W and KEF they are better value and more detail. I use Anticables and Wyred 4 sound TOP XLR connections. Previously I have sold B&W Mission KEF etc not a dealer now, and owned B&W Martin Logan and Maggies etc now not in retail and have played French horn and Piano. So got an ok pair of ears. Take a couple of critical discs and listen carefully you will be rewarded and when run in WOWWWWWWW. |
I bought a pair of the AS61 and they are the best stand mounts I've ever owned. The closest to that were the Revel M106. They need a short while to break in because out of the box, they are tizzy and slightly hollow sounding. This all disappears as they become smoother and meatier. They are so good in fact that I purchased the floor standers to replace my Wilson Sasha2s. Certainly a bit out of their league, but the Adante are amazing for 30,000. cheaper. In my room, a sub or two are needed for full effect. Perhaps in smaller rooms, this would not be the case. |
I was going to replace the Sashas with either the Vivid Giya 2s or Vandersteen 5a Carbons. Decided to keep the money and buy the Andantes and a VPI Prime Signature TT. Anyway…if these foolish web BOYz could hear the differences of the Wilsons and the Elacs in MY room, the holes in their heads would be filled with light. |
Rzemkoski still trying to understand your comment, about the difference between the Wilsons and the Adantes. Are you saying that the $5k Adantes were nearly as good as the $30k Sashas? Or that in direct comparison the difference in price vs the difference in performance were trivial? We are a big fan of the Adantes, as we are a dealer for them so of course we like them. They are ideosyncratic speakers, the point that we have made in previous posts is that the Adante sound reminds us of the Wilson presentation, punchy and visceral, with a big soundstage. As noted the speakers require careful matching to bring out what they do. We would think that the Sasha would present even better low level details with greater subtitly. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Audiotroy, Your spot on about both speakers and the Sashas are the better speaker in some respects. I have had Wilson Witts, Cubs and Sophia2s so I think I can expound on their glories and faults. I was looking for my "end" speaker and after demoing the Sasha2 with their better tweeter, I thought I could live with them. After a year, it was time for something else. On certain recordings, they could sound "crunchy" and lacking bass. I don't want to discount Wilson, because they are a great company. And are very accommodating. Wilson makes an exciting sounding product, but the excitement wanes after a long listening session (for me). My dealer offered a trade-in on the Alexia2s but I wasn't about to spend 30k for 4 more inches of bass drivers. I, on occasion, would swap out the Sashas for the Elac Debut6. I didn't miss the Wilsons. No slam of course or infinite detail, but a smooth and balanced presentation that persuaded me to reach out to the AS-61s. After the break-in and happy listening, I decided to get the AF-61s. New and sealed for 3,900. from a FL man who was going in another direction. Their not yet broken in, but I'm thinking with 2 extra bass drivers, they will fill my dedicated 20x30 ft room with non-fatigueing hi-fidelity. These will not be the end of my 40 year love affair with the "High End". Better transducers exist,of course, but I'm having fun! Thank you for an intelligent response. From now on I'll keep my "verdict" to myself. Richard the Deaf |
Seems to me the moral of this story is that the Adantes need a long, and may need a very long, break-in period in order to sound their best. This in turn would account for the consideration variations in impressions derived from recent auditions, depending on how many hours the particular units have clocked. |
The Adantes do need a considerably long break in period. I will say if you have the patience and willing to take the journey with these speakers you will be rewarded. It's been 4 months and the bass, treble and midrange have opened up to reveal this speakers true ability. It has been a great journey thus far. These have become my favorite speakers so far in my 30+ years in this hobby. Feed them solid quality watts and you will be amazed. |
Rezem, Your verdict was excellent and appreciated. If you remember we were the dealer that started the Elac and Naim thread which got torpedoded by some certain posters who hail the world resolves around a certain speaker company who makes speakers with first order slopes and were threatned by an open discussion. We personally feel that the industry is making an exciting new turn in somewhat affordable products that produce some remarkable performance and can hint at the best products available. We like the Elac Adantes and present them to people looking for a very visceral, dynamic sounding and exciting speaker. A new addition is the Quad Line to our store, and the Z series and the S series are mind blowing affordable loudspeakers. The Quad line has two series the S series which starts at a $700 and $1,000 monitor, with 2 floorstanders at $1,800 and $2,100.00 https://www.stereophile.com/content/quad-s-2-loudspeaker The Quad speakers feature totally proprietary ribbon tweeters and wooven carbon fiber drivers in nicely damped cabinets. The more expensive Z series uses a bigger ribbon and more sophisticated drivers, again with an upgraded cabinet, startiing a $2k for a monitor and $4.2 and $5k for their floorstanders. http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/upload/files/HFC_416_InDepth_QUAD_Reprint-LOW(1).pdf All we can say is WOW! The Quads are silky sounding, yet with great detail and a huge soundstage. The Quads are more delicate and airy sounding than the Elacs but lack the Elacs sense of excitement and deep viceral bass. The Quad ribbon tweeter is stunning, it creates tremendous detail yet sounds much richer and less harsh then any true ribbon tweeter we have ever experienced. The point we are making are both the Elac and Quad lines are challenging much more expensive speakers and yes we sell speakers up to $70k. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Hi... I'm curious now. I got a 60w tube amp and 60/100 w (8/4 ohms) Class A FET amps. They are driving, respectively, Acoustic Energy AE1s and Maggies 1.7s. (same preamp and front end). The result is systems with good bass, excellent midrange and extended (and very, VERY clean/detailed ) highs. The Maggies don't play as loud as I need more power. How will these speakers work? I'm afraid my amps won't have the power given that cruel 85db sensitivity. BTW, the room is 14x20x8 feet. |
guys, now the AS61 Speakers are run in and wow the sound so so perfect for my listening area, I have only a 10 ft wide area and 16 ft long but I use only 12 and 7 ft ceilings, I have sold HiFi and bought many systems from B&W Electrostatics Yes they did make some the DM70, owned M Logan Electrostatics and Maggies but these little speakers AS61 seem to produce more detail and life. I am Astounded and did compare them before buying with a few of the biggest names in Hi-Fi eg KEF, B&W and others.I would ask you to listen to a few tracks which will confirm how great these speakers are. For top end Album: Touching Silk by FrankSteiner Jr 5 Bells of the Himalaya For Drums and transient. Album: Human -OST by Armand Amar 3 Dam in China. For voice Album: Nostalgia by Annie Lenox Track 2 Georgia on my mind Flac &MQA stunning. I have too many orchestral Examples to go into but I love Mahler and Tchaikovsky and these speakers bring out so much detail it is unbelievable. I know you have loads of test discs but it was the above ( All Available on Tidal) that showed me just what these speakers could do Thank you and thanks to Andrew Jones this Design is Fantastic Paired with my Wyred 4 sound ST1000 Amplifier there is loads of Dynamics and micro detail. |
Here is a review. They are already showing up in the barely used market. I automatically ignore anything written by Steve Guttenberg at CNET. The guy writes like he’s getting kickbacks from Andrew Jones and ELAC. Just not a reliable source - especially re: ELAC products. I should note my personal connection to the matter - I purchased a pair of Uni-Fi UB5s very early on the basis of Guttenberg's sunshine pumping review(s) and wasn't impressed. Some dude running a website called "noaudiophile" had a much more accurate description of the sound - which was basically "squawkbox past 95dB" - I couldn't have agreed more. Just not a pleasant speaker at higher than average volumes. |
Sorry, 95dB was a typo - was 92dB in the review. In fact I would have gone lower but I don’t own an SPL meter so I have no idea exactly what level it was when the ELACs started sounding compressed like a PA speaker. But it wasn’t AS loud as I have been known to crank some music and hence they were returned and replaced with Wharfedale Jade 3s that, at the time, were a revelation at their own price point. Incidentally I did end up reading Guttenberg's review and surprisingly he didn't gush on the ELACs like he did on previous models. Were these Adantes designed by Andrew Jones? |
These are the only sealed box coaxial passive out there. They replaced a pair of LS50s that I used. Mine are positioned horizontally inside bookshelves and surrounded by pillows. Crossed over at 85hz at 24db/octave by JL CR1. Driven by Belles 60W class a monoblocks. Bass is handled by 2 JL F113s. System is Phase aligned with at xover frequency by the method of Barry Ober aka Sound Doctor. Fills a large open room with amazing full range accurate sound and they can play as loud as you would ever need. Were in the accurate punchy camp and not the warm camp. Its all about having the tight setup and having decent equipment around them. Sound is very open and very large sweet spot much like LS50 but they actually move some air and play upper register bass which the LS50 cannot. |