Yes, but if they get rid of that HF "zing" will the C's still be "bouncy" enough? |
Not if it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that zing, do wa do wa do wa do wa do wa do wa. |
Thes still swing and zing as I found out, though not on Thiels. |
Looks like piece of junk to the extreme. Maybe someone can explain how it works I'd be interested. The signal coming down my wire/cable is fine. I just get speakers that reproduce that signal accurately to begin with. That thing probably messes with the LCR values to electrically rolloff some of your highs--who knows. I'll have to admit I'll laugh even harder for the audiophile who's already got $1,000 speaker cables on his/her system ("to correct for the distortion imposed by the cable") and then buys that thing the damage the signal more. (of course their tube amp has probably already done the real damage at 10%THD--and rolled off the highs. So if you own a tube amp you'll never need that thing-its already distorted the signal for you). Get good speakers. $85 dollars in room treatment or deadening your speaker cabinets will get you more mileage. |
...and what about RFI,EMI? EZ, although at least theoretically I shared your scepticism, was pleasantly surprised though. Here is a siteabout them :
http://www.positivefeedback.com/ambackissues/enacom.htm |
I used them on my thiel cs6's with my nordost red dawn's but took them off when I bought my Nordost spm's and then sold them a year later when I bought my Valhalla's they do make a difference they seem to calm down the confusion on very complex musical passages |
Hello cdc,
I doubt the Enacom will cure your problem. Brightness is a stacking of excess energy at a specific frequency. This energy comes from added noise to your system in that range. I doubt Jim Thiel would let a speaker out of his factory like this. I'm sure they are spectrally fine top to bottom. This brightness, I believe is being caused by something down stream. If your components are of a neutral nature, I would look at your cabling and power. Because this is brightness, I have to believe you are picking up some RFI in your cabling and it is being added to the signal and once in you can never get out without filtering and this noise is being reproduced at the speakers. I use the Enacom filters on my 4.5 Von Schweikert's which I think have a lot more zing than the Thiels. The Enacom is a very subtle but effective enhancement. They do tend to relieve some high frequency noise which leads to more sound stage and greater low level detail. They take about 50 hours to break in and if you remove them from the circuit they will have to be acclimated again about 50 hours. Installing them in the system you won't notice much immediately but after a couple of days of playing you will notice a cleaner presentation. What they do basically is filter back force energy created by your speaker returning to the rest position. Under signal the speaker will extend out, when speaker retracts it creates a back force engery which is fed back to your amplifier and here is where all hell breaks loose. This is only simplification but I really don't think they will help your situation. I have a pair I'm not using, if you would like to try them, they are not for sale, but I'll gladly loan them to you. Hell, If Albert could loan out his Domanus, I'll take a shot with these. That's what makes this site different from all other sites, the people. How this helps.
Thanks for listening,
Dave & Gloria
davehrab
P.s. If Sean, AlbertP. or Bob-B is hanging around this morning and reads this, I would appreciate their input also. |
Also David Magnan recommends the Enacom a/c device in his interesting article at www.magnan.com, see the "tweaks" section. But I haven't heard it yet. |
I remember when I had my Thiel 3.6 back then that the Bybee Ultra speaker filters help with Zing, and I never really knew how well it was helping the system until I took it off line. Not sure about the Enacom but I know the bybees work on that particular situation. |
I've never used the Enacomm speaker filters but do have a couple of their AC filters. As such, my comments would be purely speculative in this situation and worth even less than they normally are : ) Sean
> |
Dave, your post confuses me. You seem to be suggesting that the Enacoms work just great, and at the same time saying, don't bother, they won't do any good. What am I missing? |
Hello Zaikesman,
While I think the Enacoms are an effective enhancement, I think the problem in cdc's system is RFI seeping in and being manifested at the speakers. If you feed your speakers lemons they will play lemonade. I'm not familiar with the Thiels but I don't think they are overly bright so something must be aggravating this condition. The Enacoms perform as advertised but have a very subtle action. They should be used more as an enhancement than as a repair or a bandaid. Its funny how some of these tweeks or enhancements work. Sometimes a superior system will have better success with a tweek or enhancement and those with lesser systems will not realize the benefit. Systems that are not highly resolving may not see any gain from this particular tweek. So my point is that as effective as the Enacom might be I think there is a bigger road block in cdc's system that will nullify the effects of the Enacom.
If he were to eliminate as what I'm guessing is (infiltrating RFI) by say, up grading to a better power conditioner or premium cables and say we eliminated some of the brightness due from the RFI that I believe is aggravating the situation, the Enacoms may help take the system up another notch. Hope this clarifies my earlier post and let me know if there are any other questions on this that I have not been clear on.
I'm fortunate enough to read the forum here at least 6 times a day. I'm quite familiar with who the Z-man is and his contributions. I just hope that I can add something of value like the rest of you guys.
Thanks for listening,
Dave & Gloria
davehrab
P.S. which one of you guys told the guy with the smoking transformer that "they put the smoke in at the factory and he shouldn't let it out", You guys are a rush! |
Thanks, Davehrab. I don't have the Thiels but for my taste, always liked them except for the brightness. Just no good with Naim, Krell, or even, most recently with McIntosh/Arcam system. So between so many auditions, I don't think it's RFI etc.
Maybe these things are mainly capacitors which would attenuate H-F signals. Probably not very precise in fixing a particluar problem as you mentioned.
Sean, do they work as an AC filter? I saw your thread when searching for "enacom" and noticed you had the Noise Sniffer and wall wart quiet lines. Any preference between the two?
I'm thinking Audio Magic mini-stealth or exact power conditioner from www.av123.com |
Well Dave, first of all I am glad, as a Thiel owner, to find another Audiogoner who does not hold the opinion that most Thiel models are inherently 'bright'. I've addressed this in other posts, but to put it briefly, what I often think is being preceived when people make this claim is non-optimal system matching or speaker set-up. A large part of this is due, IMO, to exactly the quality you mention, resolution, which Thiels possess prodigiously, whatever other faults one may care to lay at their feet. *If* there was a problem with RFI/EMI infecting the chain with the speaker cable as the point of entry (I know, unlikely), and *if* the Enacoms were effective at reducing it, then a Thiel speaker would undoubtedly be able to let one hear the difference. (None of which is to say you might not be correct in suspecting that Cdc's problem could be more fundamental than that. Or, maybe he simply doesn't like Thiels - though I would note that Jim Thiel, I believe, does employ some examples of the Krell amplification Cdc mentions as part of his 'development amp' arsenal.)
P.S. - Gloria, you're a trooper! I almost feel bad soliciting responses from Dave, as I can only picture you being put to work further (typing, that is, for those who don't know). Care to share some of your own thoughts with us sometime? :-) |
Are the Enacom AC's shunt devices like AudioPrism's Quiet Lines? Any opinions on whether this general type of device works at the outlet and/or power conditioner/filter level? |
