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Endgame Vocal+ DAC Help: Terminator Plus 12th vs. Chord DAVE vs. Holo May vs. Weiss502.

tl;dr:  Read title. I like vocals with spacing, depth and atmosphere.  VOCALS. I have a small, shitty space - one side of an closed porch; very near-feild computer-setup. Consider myself a whore for detail.  Was surprised to find detail-praised DACs to be harsh (e.g., RME ADI). Want thick, dark/rich, vocal forward, no loss in detail.  Hate thin, harsh, and smeared/muddy sound. Julien Baker. Hold my hand and mentor me.

The atmospheric, depth of field, concentration stuff like this: https://youtu.be/rNEZlRgebwQ is something I love, but, without lyrics, I lack emotional engagement.

Setup (shitty near-field, no choice):

Audio Streaming Services or Youtube to
BeQuiet! PC Build - USB out to
Topping D90 MQA (to be replaced) 
to Better Cables XLR 
to Benchmark HPA4 
to Classe' SIGMA AMP 2  
to Wilson Audio Duette 2's

Headphones: Hifiman Arya

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Ok, I always feel guilty asking for help; still, finding any advice otherwise is difficult. 

I'm looking to get an endgame DAC; I have the budget for about $20k worth of gear, if it's blow-me-away sort of stuff.  I've read and watched virtually every review (about 20 or so reads; about 20 or so youtube reviews, each). I can find on these (and other) DACs; so, I feel somewhat equipped with the general perceptions of each.

Still, I'm not sure how these will best suit my wants for a DAC.

Best I can tell, each of these DACs have their own camps of support, and each comes with some distinct, common-to-review, characteristics:

Chord DAVE: Bright, Atmospheric, Big, Depth, Mega Detail, Harsh on Femal Vocals at times, but other than that, I've read nothing but cum-stained reviews for this ugly thing.
Denafrips T+12: Smooth, Medium Dark, Juicy, Rich, Big, Atmospheric, Not as Vocal Forward, Changes the sound but in a good way*, Some say it backs off the lead vocals when other vocals are present.
Holo May: Smooth, 'Correct', Neutral, Big, Vocal more forwardish
Weiss502: Rich, Juicy, Studio Master Tape, Less Color

*I do not care if the DAC changes the music - most the artists I love seem to be TERRIBLE in the mixing/mastering dept.  Like TERRIBLE.  Why every artist doesn't listen to their masters on every level of dac-to-speaker combo with particular emphasis on the sort of setups/playback their target demo has absolutely boggles the mind.

I almost exclusively listen to slower, guitar/piano-based, female-vocal heavy music (e.g., Julien Baker - a lot of Julien Baker).  So, I'm looking to get a DAC best suited for that sort of music.

Essentially, making this (I know, youtube, but I love this recording) sound as good as possible is what I'm after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlVp9W6LvTQ

That skinny vocal mic in the Tiny Desk concerts has a level of detail I love.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZdnq5tN5vI

I'd like to preserve that sort of detail, but the vocals could be a touch warmer/fuller/juicier.

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Here's a bit of background experience and taste-to-product preferences with which I am aware:

I have auditioned the iFiDSD Pro, have owned the Matrix X-Sabre I, the RME ADI-II, and currently use the Topping D90 mQa.  Of the 3 (but only after I gave the strange idea of burn-in a try), the Matrix was my favorite - I think because of the spaciousness of the sound.

I do not have experience with FPGA or R2R dacs.

I consider(ed?) myself a detail whore ever since hearing the Elton John (self-titled) album in SACD - some 20ish years ago - the vocal isolated parts were really, really pleasingly detailed.  This was played over a Marantz sr7007, the same year's Marantz SACD multi player, and with a Rotal 1075 AMP feeding BW 600 series floorstanders with bi-wired silver audio cable.

However, when listening to the RME ADI on my youtube favs, I found the whole thing absurdly detailed - but, fatiguing and harsh at times.  I realize some of this is source - youtube.  I keep referencing the RME ADI because, compared to the others, it was a detail winner, but, to my ears, was harsh and a tiny bit thin.

So, perhaps I am not the detail fiend I thought I was - I'm actually not sure. 

I can say that I love the sound of the microphone used in the PASTE Mag concerts - that crispness that seems to pick up significant detail gives me the right emotional connection.  Again, making this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlVp9W6LvTQ - sound as good as I can is what I'm after.

End of the day, I think I am looking for the most engaging dac for vocals - I am definitely a vocals whore, and a sucker for good, sad lyrics. I HATE anything muddy, congested, or blurred, and, after a lot of paying attention, I seem to be sensitive to harshness and listening fatigue.  I realize detail and harshness/fatigue are often at odds.  I have extended my budget to the absurd to tackle this.

At any rate, after literal years of research, this is where I am.

Can you help?
~Nick

nlynchard
carlsbad's avatar
carlsbad
1,551 posts
 

As for harsh, Dave addresses that.  I have never found Dave to be harsh but I have had other harsh DACs.  

Dave has a preamplifier mode  and if you operate in the lower section of the scale you will experience no harshness.

On the Qutest, Chord provides 3 voltage levels which addresses harshness.  

On the Dave, you and put it in preamp mode and turn it down to 50% or less and use the gain on your regular preamp--unless you are using Dave as your preamp.  I never turn it up over -30dB on my efficient system.

Dave does work very well in preamp mode and I do not use another preamp.

Jerry

goose
688 posts
 

I thought the Goldensound review was done very well when discussing the Chord and Holo dacs. In the digital world it’s sometimes confusing since it changes very quickly and today's star may be an "also ran" in the near future. The Chord products are a little hard to find and audition. An audio friend of mine has gone through a bunch of dacs and is very picky. He has had dacs from 2k to 15k and he settled on the Holo May KTE. I don’t know if it’s his end dac but is happy for now.

jeffreyw's avatar
jeffreyw
268 posts
 

@nlynchard 

The DAVE is good, but there are many others out there that are better. Please check out the Aries Cerat line of DACs. These are end-game products. I read an interesting thread in another forum that many have upgraded from DAVE to Aries Cerat, but no one moved from Aries Cerat to DAVE. Just my 2C.

metaldetektor
160 posts
 

Will try to help another Julien Baker fan. Have enjoyed her live many times. Check out Cassandra Jenkins as well if you haven't already.

With the favorable dollar, it's a nice chance to home audition a totaldac from France (risk free home trial, just cover shipping if you return it). It's far from the last word in detail or in recreating recording space, but if you value natural and engaging tone, density and texture, in particular with vocals, I'm not sure you can find a more engaging dac at the price point for vocals. Various price points available -- whatever model interests you, make sure to get the "live power" upgrade.

Below 10k, I also really like the Meitner MA3 -- higher resolution but gives up a bit in the categories the totaldac is strong in. You should be able to home audition this from dealers, look them up.

(I have personally owned/home demoed these dacs and others, I am not speculating based on reviews and user comments...do not buy based on reviews/comments if you can help it...those are just ways to figure out what you want to home audition) 

jimmy2615
436 posts
 

Based on my experience with DACs I would recommend you pick up a used Terminator (original, or even one of the smaller models) and see how it sounds in your system.  This $3-4k expense, which you can resell, will tell you if you like the Denafrips flavor.  If so, then either keep it or upgrade, and add a Aurender N20 using the SPDIF output to upsample.  This will give you the best world of smoothness and detail and substance/meat on the bone.  I currently own and like Weiss, but for what you describe I think the Denafrips might be a good match.  I have never heard any of the Chords in my system.  If you haven’t read it, the computer audiophile review of the terminator vs the TII is a really good summary of how these DACs sound and expounds on the benefit of upsampling with them.

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