@rauliruegas : Good advice, for sure, to get a universal alignment protractor if you’ll be changing out arms. Just moments ago, in fact, I took delivery of a new SmartTractor. We’ll see how it goes. I’ve always had a preference for dedicated arc protractors, dating back to my first WallyTractor in 2000, and have them for all my arms. But the eyes are not what they were and won’t be getting better. I think the one-point process should be easier.
BTW, Wally preceded Yip at MintLP in bringing dedicated arcs to market, if I’m not mistaken--at least in my awareness. Mints are excellent and missed. JR now offers the generously-named Universal WallyTractor, which has many curves but not all, although he will still do a dedicated protractor at a very high price. I’ve never used or even seen a Feikert but it has a big following.
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FWIW, I just now cross-checked the SmartTractor on a cartridge I recently installed with a WallyTractor and the Lofgren B alignments were identical. No change needed. This is extremely enheartening, given the SmartTractor’s superior ease of use. What a nifty piece of engineering. @mijostyn you were so right!
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@wrm57 I have the same old eyes you have and as you found out the SmarTractor is a really nifty device. Many people have a hard time getting over the price, but for any vinyl head who is the least bit fastidious it is well worth every cent. I can say the same about the WallySkator. If someone tells me I set the VTF to 2 grams and antiskating at 11% I know exactly what that means. Every other way of trying to describe antiskating is virtually meaningless.
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@mijostyn : agreed on the WallySkator. A must-have device.
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There are three parameters involved: spindle to Pivot distance, pivot to stylus distance, and offset angle of the cartridge. Once two are set the only thing that can be changed is the third. Often the spindle to Pivot and the offset angle are set so that leaves only the pivot to stylus that can be adjusted. I really like the feickert alignment tool. It is pretty much Universal and has calibration marks for the various schemes.
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This sidebar about mounting distance is irrelevant. SOTA built a custom armboard so the suspension will balance properly and drilled that 222 mm as per factory specs.
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Why must I have the Wallyskater, if I have both a Smartractor and a Feickert protractor? To set AS? Or what?
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@lewm : Yes, WallySkator is just for anti-skate. It enables an easy setting to a requisite percentage of VTF, which JR, or perhaps Wally before him, established to be 11% for 9-inch arms, 9% for 12-inch. It does some other things, too, like measure stiction, but AS is its main use.
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At best, any AS setting can be correct (exactly equal in magnitude to the skating force) at only two points on the LP surface. There is a fairly broad range of settings that will satisfy that requirement, 11% of VTF being one of them. I’d be curious to borrow a Wally just to find out how close I get to 11% by simply setting AS to a minimal value above zero .
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On my arms it takes more than I expect to hit the numbers, and I typically back it off a touch.
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@wrm57, @lewm The best way to see this is with a naked cantilever. The AS setting depends on the type of stylus used. For 9" arms the range is 9-11%. 9% for spherical, 10% for elliptical and 11% for line contact. I push it to 12% with really aggressive styluses like the Gyger S, Replicant 100 and the Soundsmith MR. When lowered in the middle of a 33.3 RPM record the cantilever should remain perfectly straight. It's horizontal angulation should not change. It it leans outwards towards the right channel you have too little AS. If it leans inwards towards the left channel you have too much AS. The WallySkater settings get you right there without a trial and error nuisance. It also verifies that the bearings and AS device are functioning correctly. I have seen several arms with significant defects. I have also put the stylus down all along the radius of a record and the cantilever's angle does not change notably. When set at the beginning of the record you will see that the cantilever starts leaning towards the right channel just before the run out area proving that the skating force INCREASES towards the end of the record. Setting in the middle gives you a good average. The WallySkator should be adjusted so that the stylus floats over the center of the record. The Lyras, Clearaudios and Van den Huls are great cartridges to see this. I use 20X loops and very bright lights to aid the process. Unfortunately, cartridges that extend over their cantilever make this difficult to see as will very low compliance cartridges.
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There’s a bit too much to address individually on this topic. The last thread that was loosely related to this this subject hit a few days after I put this blog post out.
TL;DR #1: There numerous excellent geometries to choose from. Dispense with your confirmation bias about Löfgren A/B, Stevenson, Uni-DIN, etc. And faithfully follow your favorite.
TL;DR #2: I strongly suspect the "controlled" experiments many have reported on this thread are heavily skewed by (1) not getting the zenith right and (2) varying it slightly with each setup - invalidating any comparison. Take a look at the distortion and tracking angle curves in the above post, when the zenith is off. I have not compared zenith errors across all alignments, but know this: zenith is the new azimuth, and it’s much trickier to get right than azimuth is. Aligning zenith using the cantilever is a much more flawed method than setting azimuth with a horizontal headshell and calling it "good".
I say this with humility. As @lewm commented above, I would hope that we all look back at our work product from 5 years ago and view it with disdain ... as far as how much progress we’ve made in our journey.
... Thom @ Galibier
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Mijo, I don't know whether you agree with me or not, but what I wrote is that AS can be exactly equal in magnitude (and hopefully opposite in direction) to the skating force at only two points on the LP surface. It seems to me this is true for any stylus shape, and length tonearm, etc. Because AS is constant in magnitude and direction while the skating force describes a kind of eccentric parabola if you plot its magnitude with respect to the distance between the innermost and outermost grooves, and this is disregarding the vicissitudes of the skating force that are due to the program material. A straight line (the graph for AS) will intersect the skating force parabola at two points, unless AS is incorrectly set lower than the skating force minimum or higher than the skating force maximum. And anyway, do you REALLY think there is much difference between 9, 10, 11, or 12% of the skating force?
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@lewm You are right Lew. The question is what is the best average over the entire play area. The amount of AS required increases with the size of the contact patch at any given VTF. Studying cantilever angles is an extremely fastidious way of going about finding the right setting. Some would argue there is no right setting. Then I would argue why use AS at all. Most of us with 1/2 a brain are going to call that a bad idea. So since everyone with 1/2 a brain agrees that we should be using some form of AS, and we know that the skating force is variable, not a constant, how do you go about figuring the best average and a way to dial it in consistently with as little effort as possible. IMHO the WallySkater is the best way. If you want to look at cantilever angles to dial things in further, why not. I do this every time I use a new to me stylus profile. I have found that styluses like the Soundsmith MR, the replicant 100 and the Gyger S do best at 12% of VTF. Lyra's line contact and MSL's line contact take 11%. It will be interesting to see what the V15 MR with it's extremely high compliance and low VTF will take. I will have the Jico stylus tomorrow.
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I don't think it follows from "there is no right setting" that you may as well not use AS at all. And I apologize for coming on perhaps too strongly. I use AS on my overhung tonearms, of course, and I try for a minimum amount that eliminates distortion in the R channel that I can hear with zero AS. So maybe by shooting for that entirely subjective endpoint I end up using a tiny bit more AS with those exotic stylus shapes you mention. I would need the Wallyskater to determine that.
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There are those that make that argument @lewm. You are either leaning on one wall or the other. My goal is to minimize that as much as is feasible, even it out. An arm that is not offset is ideal as long as it stays right on the tangent.
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When I recommend a procedure or tool to a customer, I try to get a read on their aptitude and willingness to learn. Needless to say, mechanical and cognitive skills span quite a broad range and with them, so do my recommendations.
If someone is willing to recognize how alignments are established (and the reason I published that blog post linked to, above), then we have vanquished yet another demon. I look at that as a good thing.
As far as anti-skate is concerned, it is "accidentally correct" at a few points along the stylus’ path, and of course, if you’ve set any anti-skating force at all, it’s wrong at the null points ;-)
I endorse the method espoused by both Frank Schröder and Peter Lederman of Soundsmith (click here for Peter's comments).
Don’t get too cute with anti-skate. AJ van Den Hul once told me that the vast majority of cartridges he receives for inspection show signs of vastly too much anti skate (wear on the outer / lead-in groove side of the stylus).
When you understand that anti-skate is is the vector sum of the forces which in turn vary with groove friction, you’ll realize why any attempt at anything more than a minimal setting is asking for trouble.
Groove friction in turn varies. It is a function of the cleanliness and condition of both the stylus and record, the shape and polish of the diamond, and the signal level encoded in the grooves.
In other words, what works for one record at 87mm from the record spindle may be too little or too much force for another record.
Wally M was a charming, quirky fellow and he has done some amazing work for the vinyl community, but his one product which I strongly disagree with is his Wally-Skater. I did a favor for him at one show, and he offered me any Wally-tool as an expression of gratitude. Thinking that I was missing something, I chose a Wally-Skater.
Read Peter Lederman’s comments on the topic and focus on getting your zenith correct. You may well have been misdiagnosing poor zenith as incorrect anti-skate.
... Thom
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@lewm - With all due respect you stated that "AS is constant in magnitude" which is not true. As Peter Ledermann confirms: "A properly designed anti-skating is non-linear, as it should of course increase A-S automatically as the cartridge approaches the inner grooves."
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+100 re:WAM Engineering ("Wallytools"). J. R. Boisclair is one of the most knowledgable engineers in the country, maybe in the world, when it comes to optimizing the performance of cartridges and tonearms. His site & online channels are packed with tutorials, reference information, research results, etc. Buying a full set of Wallytools isn't cheap, but it's a one-time investment and in my own first-hand experience, JR's microscopic analysis service & toolset made a more dramatic improvement in my vinyl reproduction than did upgrading to cables that cost far more -- and I experienced consistent results with MM & MC cartridges ranging from $700 to $2800. Before making a decision based on well-intentioned, often well-informed, but outsider-looking-in advice from fellow members, you owe it to yourself to at least browse through WAM's online resources (and Michael Fremer's excellent WAM overviews in Stereophile). In my opinion, NO ONE who is serious about vinyl reproduction should try to fool themselves into thinking that they can accurately and precisely align a commercially manufactured cartridge without WAM on their side. Even the best "standard" protractors only get you partway there. |
@thom_at_galibier_design Welcome Thom.
I am a big fan of Frank Schroeder. I currently run a CB. The method of setting AS recommended by Frank and Peter is useful for people who have no better way. The problem is defining what a "slowly drift" means. One person's slow drift may not be another's. From a tracking and record wear perspective too little AS is just as bad as too much. The determinants of the skating force are VTF, contact patch size, groove velocity and modulation density. The skating force increases towards the center of the record because the modulation density increases. For any one particular set up VTF and Contact Patch are constants. With a reasonably compliant cartridge like a Lyra or Van den Hul you can determine the correct AS force by careful observation of lateral cantilever deflect as the stylus settles into the groove at the midpoint of the record. Bright light and 10X loops help. The cantilever should not move laterally from its resting position. This corresponds to a Wallyskater reading of 12 % for really acute styluses like the replicant 100, Gyger S, Soundsmith MR and Jico SAS. More conservative line contact styluses, like Lyra and My Sonic Lab use, correspond to a WallySkater reading of 11%. Even though groove velocities can vary from one record to another, there is little difference in the AS required from one record to another. This problem exists for any method of setting AS.
Having gone through the above process many times I have no problem trusting the WallySkater. It is a rapid and easy way to find a reasonable, average AS setting and definitely more accurate than a "slow drift" towards the label in the run out position. I know exactly what 11% means.
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@thom_at_galibier_design
I forgot to mention, the cure for improper zenith or any other stylus orientation problem is a new stylus or cartridge. IMHO every cartridge should be examined before it is mounted for the first time. If the stylus is not mounted correctly it should be covered under warranty and usually is without argument. Under optimal circumstances the examination should be done before the cartridge leaves the retailer. A file of the pictures should accompany the cartridge. Most individuals are not going to spend $1500 on a usb microscope and proper staging.
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@cundare2
NO ONE who is serious about vinyl reproduction should try to fool themselves into thinking that they can accurately and precisely align a commercially manufactured cartridge without WAM on their side.
I could not agree more. I went all in with analysis, tools and support from JR for a new TT and Cart (maybe end game). At this level you really are wasting money without WAM.
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bill_k, Can you direct me to Peter Ledermann’s quote as follows: "With all due respect you [referring to me, Lew] stated that "AS is constant in magnitude" which is not true. As Peter Ledermann confirms: "A properly designed anti-skating is non-linear, as it should of course increase A-S automatically as the cartridge approaches the inner grooves."
This stimulated me in several directions. First, it may have been flippant of me to say that AS is constant in magnitude across the LP surface; I should have thought about it in greater detail, but if you consider an old-fashioned string and weight AS device, what would change the magnitude of AS force as the tonearm swings in toward the platter is the angle of the pull of the string/weight on the arm wand, assuming that friction of the string on the guide is unchanging. That changing angle would indeed probably change the magnitude of AS, but such a change would be linear with a slope related to the changing angle of the pull force. That still does not mimic the ups and downs of the skating force. The AS force exerted by a magnetic device would also vary but also would not closely mimic the changes in skating force that occur in the course of playing an LP using a pivoted overhung tonearm. Finally, I wish I knew what tonearm Peter was thinking of when he wrote that passage. Finally, finally, is it indeed true that the max skating force occurs at the innermost grooves? Gotta think more about that one, but off the top of my head, the skating force would be related to the headshell offset angle at the innermost null point (a minimum) and then rise as the stylus approaches the runout grooves. Before the tonearm reaches the innermost null point, the skating force is created by headshell offset angle PLUS TAE. At the outer null point, it is again caused only by headshell offset. And at the outer grooves, again we have both TAE and offset. There is just no way to design an AS device to follow those variations, and this does not even take into account groove tortuosity as another ever changing source of a skating force.
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@lewm - Just happened to catch your post, but for future posts directed to another user you should use @username so they'd be notified. I had to do some searching to find where I sourced that quote from Peter but got it. It's on the following page in the "There's More..." section. https://www.sound-smith.com/faq/how-do-i-adjust-anti-skating-my-cartridge He covers many of the important aspects of AS there.
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FWIW, I wasn’t notified of your response.
The gist of my response to PL is that yes, AS devices might increase the AS force as the stylus approaches innermost grooves, but no, in general AS devices don’t follow the skating force in magnitude. Or AS does not successfully cancel the skating force, to put it another way. I don’t think PL would make that claim.
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So I just watched the two videos that bill_k referenced, and I don't perceive any conflict between what Peter says and what I wrote, except for the fact I was technically incorrect to have written that the AS force is constant. Upon further thought, I see now that, at least for the conventional string and weight type of AS devices, the force pulling the tonearm would increase as the tonearm approaches the label, because the angle between the string and the arm wand is approaching 90 degrees, at which point all of the mass of the weight (force, F) would be pulling on the arm wand in the desired direction.
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One of my tonearms is an OL arm as well. I solely use a generated arc protractor.
For conical and elliptical stylii I always align with Stevenson, as IGD can be an issue with these stylus profiles. For radical cut stylii I try both Stevenson and Loefgren A and judge by ear, but sometimes end up back at Stevenson.
When setting up cartridges for other folks, if they are primarily a classical listener I will weight the decision towards Stevenson.
Good luck, and dont overthink it. All alignments are compromizes.
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@lewm - Notifications when you're mentioned in the forums is I believe controlled by a setting in your AG profile. For the record (no pun intended) the only issue I raised from your earlier post was the claim that "AS is constant in magnitude". I'm also in agreement that the use of AS is an approximation and not an exact science.
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Thanks for making me think about that statement.
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