Garrard 301 - Project

If you could  win the Footers in the Link for about $180, you will be very happy.

These are the footers I have used for years under heavy TT's until Solid Tech - 'Feet of Silence' , took their place under a much lighter in weight DD TT.

These are from my side thoroughly recommended for Source, Amp' and Speaker It was these that made such an impression on a friend under their speakers, they went the route of Townshend Podiums at a substantially increase in cost. 

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/1129165914/

@noromance I always state something along the lines of the experience encountered has been the one that most impressed and proved to be the one wanted to be maintained.

There is no longer any want to revert to experiences previously had. 

Bringing in alternative materials carefully selected for the roles to be used has never failed to impress as a betterment when I have been party to the changes being made. 

I can say this for Wire, Types, Connector Types, Bearing Interfaces in both TT Platter Bearing  and TA, TA Headshells and structure materials such as a Plinth or Sub Plinth. 

@noromance Similar experiments have been done with naked chassis on numerous TT's, even when my friend got their SP10 R, there was a range of Prop's trialed to eke the sound from it that was a betterment.

My continuous experiences of using Plinth Materials and experiencing Plith Matrilas has been run in conjunction with working with the overall supporting structure for the support of the Source and System.  

I have worked from the Floor Upwards and also having industrial type Gallows Bracket fastened to the Walls as a Suspended Structure.

The Gallows Brackets has served as a Shelve Support and also an anchor point to suspend shelves from on O Rings, Chain, and Rope.

The Suspended Set Up nor the Shelve Support was an attractive option to be used with the Vinyl Source, but complimented CDP > DAC very well. 

The Vinyl Source from my experiences works at it very best in my listening environment when mounted on a Multi Tier Support Structure, inclusive of Highly Compressed Foam, Steel Plates, Granite as the Sub Base and this is then built of as the mount for the Bespoke Produced Hard Wood Rack that has spring suspension as footers, with a variety of Isolation devices used for under each Shelve.

The Racks support for the Vinyl Source is a further multi tier support structure that has been optimised over the years to suit a variety of TT's in varying Plinth Materials. I do believe I got a very attractive sonic from Granite when it was a preferred material, especially when I found materials that was able to keep it in a state of suspension and not compressing to become hard.

I found a 40m Diameter dense closed cell round Backing Rod used for Silicone Applications ideal for this role as a Footer for a 9 Stone of Granite Plinth. It is trimmable as well to assist with the bulk of the leveling requirement.  

The individual who now owns the 401 and Granite Plinth has not got the same from it as I did, even though it sits on the Backing Rod I gave the owner. As for the reason who knows. It might be there is not a understructure like mine used to support it, or the new environment needs different structure very different from mine and the one presently in use ?

The 401 owner has done much better with various designs of Wood Board as a Plinth Structure.

On one occasion I informed the 401 owner, but in relation to their GL 75's that there is a colouration detectable that is most likely caused by the Sub Support in use.

I know how tidy a GL75 can sound as a typical GL75 and as a PTP Design, as I have experience with both through ownership.

The 401 owner invited me back to show me how much their TT's had been tidied up, on this occasion I took my Sub Plinth and Stacked Footer assembly with me to give them a demo' and loan.

Following their new under TT support demo' the items were swapped out for my own, in this environment they worked superbly, the System owners Jaw was agape😦. During the loan, my devices were plagiarised for their own continued use.

The Environment for a TT set up and the Support Structure in use are extremely important to having the Vinyl Source optimised for performance as a set up.

A TT will produce a sound and music that is a enjoyable experience in any environment, think of all the Parties a TT has been the source for the music being danced or head banged to.

As an audio enthusiast and having learned over many years, things worthy of consideration, I have adopted an active approach, that attempts to address some of the things that are best avoided. I do think I have removed or at worst diminished unwanted influences to the place they are not detected as detrimental to the signal being produced by the styli's interface within the groove.   

As it is known, Densified Wood as a Support Structure, is where my attention is now  placed.

My Bespoke Produced Rack, which is very long time owned will most likely become a Hybrid with this material, especially as a Cap attached to the Base of the Legs to house the Spring Suspension and as replacement for the used Ash Wood for Frame Bracing / Shelve Supports.  

I have heard the 401 with the LDA Speed Controller Prototype and the Marketed Model.

I have also heard the 401 using the LDA Speed Controller compared to other Speed Controllers, produced as designs to be DIY produced.

I do believe the LDA is the better as a basic design to a DIY basic design, but have heard a bespoke modified DIY Basic design that was parity or possibly a little better that the LDA on both a 401 and a GL 75.

I use a Nigel Built (Personal Built Model) NSC on my PTP Solid 9.

I know the Idler Drive Sound very well and have encountered many ID's including the 301's, I have heard these models in a large selection of Plinth Designs, but not all demo's are in the home system.

A good selection are in systems I know quite well.

I today find the DD TT, especially in my own case, a Vintage Japanese DD TT, when mounted on a particular plinth type, is much more attractive to my unique preference as a method to replay a Vinyl Album.    

I don't use Slate for any purpose in HiFi, but have at one time been interested in the material and as a result, own a very heavy Slab, probably from a Seam that was close to 2500Kg+ per m3.

I no longer express an interest in Granite as a Plinth Material, I have many years experience of it used on a 401, and through the 401's new owner being a friend, experienced the 401, used on a selection of Plinth designs of which I preferred the lighter designs, in either a Wood Mass with Damping Pockets or as a CLD Design.

I know the 401 Sound very well and the most it has impressed me is during one of my last encounters of it in use, when the 401 was mounted in a Three Way Compressed Bamboo Board cut to be used as a Plinth.

I stand by my statement made at the time of the demonstration, being that I have not encountered a 401 that could create such a good impression.

With my better understanding of materials today, I do know that the Three Wat Compressed Bamboo Board can have a Damping Factor of 2 - 5 depending on whether the size tested is a Sample dimension or a Plinth Dimension.

That as a measurement for a Sample is 10x improved damping in comparison toa MDF Sample.

Slate as a Sample has a measurement of 0.017, which is one the last measurements one would select if choosing a material with highly effective intrinsic damping. The Bounce Back of Energy transferred is going to be evident, I will state audible, if compared to a material being used with damping properties that produce little or negligible bounce back of received energy. 

The material I am now an advocate of, and for a period of time have been transitioning to for various roles. Especially as a Plinth Material, Sub Plinth Material, Equipment Chassis and is the material that will most likely supersede most support materials used in my system is the material referred to as a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood, of which it can be discovered from the Brand Panzerholz and Permali and in my case are both owned.

A Sample   of Panzerholz and Permali has a Damping Factor of 4 and a Plinth Dimension of 25mm Thick Panzerholz has been measured with a Damping Factor of 7.

There is no Bounce Back that is audible from these Damping Factors, and the Dissipation of Energy transferred is one of the Best Measured as well.

I will not suggest a Stone, Plywood Board or MDF is a inferior plinth, each material can be quite stable. I am sure they have their fanboys for how the sound produced is assessed.

I would myself have a Compressed Bamboo over any of the above, as I know how it has impressed me in relation to what I know about Stone and Plywood Board Designs.

Over all the above I now know without reservation I would have a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Wood Board, I have heard this compared to Marine Plywood, MU25 Plywood and the Panzerholz Plinth was instantly discernable for the improvement  it offered. 

Just as Damper and Body Materials used in Cartridges has evolved in the selection for a materials.

Materials used for structure in audio equipment has evolved as well, and it is easy to see where the industry is adopting it and not. Linn won't inform on their most recent TT being constructed with P'holz, it is an inhouse name for the material. As does Kaiser Speakers referring to the Bespoke Materials as Tank Wood.

There are most likely other Brands with a usage of it and a disguised name to protect their IP.

'Bounce Back' is a simplistic term, used when describing extremely Poor Dissipation and Damping, the Energies are not Damped or Dissipated, hence they are contained and in motion as further transferal, hence 'Bounce Back'.

In relation to the TT, being in contact with such a material, the likelihood/guarantee is that the Styli is to be receive energies from Bounce Back, resulting in a contaminated energy being sent to create the initial signal to be transferred for further stages of amplification, where the contamination is included in all stages until sound is produced.

Whether the end listener is able to detect the contamination in the produced sound will be open to debate, I have and do, when certain types of structure are being used.    

@lewm My days of Ping Pong with you are from this post onwards over, especially on the subject of your preferred plinth material, in relation to my ongoing interest in Plinth ,Materials, where I have for the present settled on a Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board as the Plinth Material.

There are Links posted by myself for quite some time that shows the Damping - Dissipation Data for many materials selected for a Plinth and other Structures used in the field of audio. I will not be supplying these to you, that search is now for you to satisfy yourself.

My two pennies worth, strongly suggests Slate Samples of same dimension from all over the World will measure at very closely to 0.017, which will have substantial Bounce Back as an inherent property. This is very different to your very Layman description of Slate Properties.

Again if a  Phenolic Resin Impregnated Densified Wood Board produced anywhere in the World, if the same dimension will measure similar, especially with 4.0 being the reading for a 4" x 4" x 1/2", which is substantially more attractive as a materials than all others known to be used for structural purposes in the field of audio.  

@noromance It is good to see your inquisitiveness has taken you to places where modern approaches are being adopted and the benefits are discovered. The SPH Bearing with the Non-Metal on Metal design is one I know very well, and one I was instrumental in having a Composite Spindle Design produced for, which a friend now has in use for their Idler Drive adventures. 

An interesting statement, I wonder who said it ?

"And it's quite possible that Panzerholz is superior to slate; I haven't tried it. To be honest, the foregoing information about the difficulties of obtaining and working with Panzerholz just shows the wisdom of ordering a finished plinth from Albert."

A clue maybe,                                                                                                               A user of PA Slate maybe and one who bolsters their being a advocate by making it known, OMA proudly use PA slate. I would stand proud if I were doing very well out the realisation of plagiarizing a British Companies concept for a Plinth Product at $3K a purchase.

For the record, my making a post is not always an attempt at responding to a post from another.

Likewise, my showing a commonly found evidence that a particular individual is varied in their assertions made and stand taken, is also not my responding to an individuals post.

What might or might not prove to be of interest, is that the particular evidence used, is one that is 14 years old. The use of Dreary as a description does seem to be fitting for more than one reason when referring to my post. 

I have made it known, I am not a lock oneself away in a room individual a their participation in Audio as a interest. I get out and take part in a spread wide social network. 

As a result of my willingness to meet others, I've been exposed to a wide range of Plinth Designs. Where I have been seated in front of and receiving demo's of the fashionable materials for Plinths used for Idler Drive TT's from the 90's and 00's (Granite, Slate and well thought out timber structures are all met in used as a   Plinth Structure being demonstrated, of which I chose Granite).

The 10's and now in the 20's, have introduced myself to new concepts (very advanced Timber Structures with designs included to aid damping, Increased Compression Wood Based Boards and Highly Compressed Foam Based Boards Polybentonite Resin, Highly Compressed Bamboo and Densified Wood.

There is no desire to return to any material experienced prior to my usage of a  Densified Wood as a material, even though my experience of Highly Compressed Bamboo on a Garrard 401 has been very impressive and indelible as a memory, the best 401 met to date as my assessment.

As for materials I am keeping on, the next will be a Mycelium based product, hopefully all Organic in its origin and able to compete with substances coming from Chemical or Petrochemical origins.

Formula One already has a secretive materiel that is very much aligned to this new philosophy.

The same person who has received material Samples from me for testing, that are not commonly met materials, and the same person who over the Years been supplying Data on a vast range of materials used in audio. The same person who has in 'certain circles' become known as pretty much the Godfather of Panzerholz through the Testing and Data they supplied many many years ago, will receive from myself new samples of new discovered materials for testing. 

I am not an expert, I don't have to be, I receive good description of Data from those that really know. That when contemplated by the Layman, helps making decisions to make a change a no brainier, to follow up on the idea to be inquisitive and learn what is on offer. 

There is an amount of Threads to be found, with a substantial amount of Posts on Spindle Weights, Spindle Clamps and Mats.

My input will be I have found through many trials, what I class as suitable to my own unique preferences.

Yours will be a Journey of many stops with trials and discoveries to be met or a one stop journey where the alighting the interest ends quickly, I strongly recommend the former.    

During the past weekend, I was finally able to add a SS Platter to a SP10 MkII.

The demo' was carried out in the home of the individual who has won over many converts to adopting the work undertaken on the SP10 MkII and their Bespoke design for a Tonearm.

The SP10 used has a bespoke design being used for the Platter Spindle Bearing and also has a electronics modification that has a improved control in comparison to the original design for the stability of speed.

Panzerholz is the TT's Plinth with a P'holz Sub Plinth.

Three individuals in the Room using equipment each are very familiar with in relation to TT>Tonearm>Phonostage>Speakers.

New Class D Power Amp's were in use, which I immediately picked up on had a impact on the Soundstage, there was the perception of a wider and deeper volume being filled.

The SS Platter (7Kg) with no damping was put into service after the first recess for Lunch.

A few repeat Tracks were agreed to be replayed and as I was in the hotspot, I was immediately to become aware of the difference the SS Platter has on the presentation.

With the changes detected, I gave up my seat to the System owner who worked their way through a few familiar Tracks.

The other attendee also had the hotspot for their choice of Tracks as well.

Interesting Outcome, I felt the Mid's and Highs were accentuated in a way that was not in coherence with the lower frequencies.

The system owner felt the lower frequencies were not only subdued, but also subtly smeared and lost the clean edge and fast decay usually present.

The other attendee felt the Mat should be tried out with a Valve Amplification as well, as the Bass might benefit.

The system owner has heard enough to convince them that a Damping will bring more to the party and give the Mat a better Interface on the TT.

Moral of the Story, Platters can't be assessed as a verbal exchange, the experience has to be had, especially in a environment where much info is already known about the systems performance without the additional ancillary.

As for exchanges of a Platter Spindle Bearing to a design using modern concepts and materials not used by the original manufacturer, such as a Thermoplastic with low coefficient of friction. I can say go for it, there is much improvement to be found.    

@tomic601 As I have made it known endlessly.

I travel, I meet, I experience, I comment only (to the best of my ability ) on experiences encountered only.

If I add anything beyond experience had (to the best of my ability),  it will be the interpretation of a description given from an individual 'known' and who I have a lot of trust in on the subject of Audio.

I do the basics of the Math Pretty well, and have access to all the Tools available to be used on the internet to make the math occasionally required easier. 

Math, what does it really mean to a Newbie, or in many cases to the individuals with a long term interest in audio ? Most are trusting in others and allow the Math to be another's concern. Is a audio enthusiast really lacking in understanding and not to be taken serious if they are not presenting the Math behind decisions made/to be made.

Does a 10 years old - 40 years old TT really perform to the measured spec offered at the time of new?

Does a Cart' with a usage life really perform to the measured Spec' from when it left the manufacturers ?

Does a Tonearm living in a typical environment for a period of time, function exactly as the design was intended to do so ?

All the so called Diehards, quoting all forms of Math don't actually know what they own.

I am sticking close to those who do know what they own, and on a simple description can request a chance to investigate something that may have changed, the only math required being the calculation of the round trip.  

Basic description of experiences had, and influences resulting from experiences had, are the type of info that I wholeheartedly sense is what appeals to the larger audio enthusiast group. It is these who I post for in a Thread. Certainly not the stagnated, who are very low in activity for their inquisitive ventures.

As said on many occasions, I gave up on the 'sole locked away in a room listener type', way too many years ago.

To consider this notion today is seen to have an only outcome that diminishes opportunity to encounter experiences and removes opportunity to attain, the very  important grounding in what is valuable and worthwhile maintaining and what is a 'se défausser'.

Unfortunately the Gon is doing its FORUM MEMBERS an INJUSTICE by blocking Links to other Web Sites that are totally on topic to the content of  Thread.

Everybody needs a good old link to help, these are coals on the fire.

Stereophile - Budha Bearing review, a few useful tops about fitting these add-on devices as well.

I have used and will suggest Bicycle Torque Wrench as the tightening tool. The selection of the correct Nm Setting is King in such a circumstance. 4Nm is a very good start point. 

An additional Collar used on the Chassis to improve Chassis Rigidity, resulting in substantial reduction on the Chassis Flexion is invaluable.

There is no point having the tightest of tolerances for a new machined Bearing Assembly, set up in a way the Bearing Housing Base is a Pendulum through Chassis Flexion showing the worst of its presence at the Bearing Base.

A Bearing Housing Exchange Is one of a few considerations to be used in conjunction, with adding rigidity to the Chassis and Anchoring the Bearing Housing Base to reduce flexion. Some also have methods to use a Base Anchor as a Energy Drain.