Grimm MU1/Mola Mola Tambaqui combo vs. Grimm MU2

I hate youtube. What did he conclude?

He concluded that the Grimm MU2 is very good and a winner for the price.  Given a high-resolution system, the Grimm MU1 with a Mola Mola Tambaqui is clearly better.  Both are extraordinary values, but the separates in this case are simply better (MU1/Tambaqui).  

Sounds about right to me.  I have an MU1 and a Lampizator GG3.  Haven't listened to the MU2.

Other reviewers don’t share his opinion. He sells both lines, why would he tell current and potential customers that the cheaper option sounds better? He left out the fact that the MU2 has a preamp section and doubles as a Roon Core and Endpoint.

It's a an interesting back and forth, but I see it as two potential forms of bias. 

1. This guy will argue on behalf of anything that costs more, because he makes more. Simple and obvious.

2. Reviewers always rave about everything, and this eternal product optimism is their nature, because positivity moves units and keeps them in the good graces of the industry. This too simple and obvious.

Now not to go too far into it, but I do know some professional reviewers on a more casual basis and even though this item (MU2) falls outside of their typical price and functional capacity likings. Meaning they typical don't advocate product's in this price range, and they more often then not advocate for separate systems out of reasons for tailoring and personalization, they all unanimously and unequivocally love the MU2 and say that it's better then more expensive separate systems.

I'm gonna have to do some deep soul searching and hope to get an audition of a MU2, because my Innuos Statement, Tambaqui, possibly my Yamaha C-5000 may just have found a replacement should the reviewers be correct in their assertion.

I'm kinda skeptical. I like my system, and still have questions, and am somewhat Roon-phobic, but we'll see.

Probably will take me 6 months to a year to sort all this out.

A couple of points here.  I know Bill and he is usually spot on with respect to how things sound.  He states the MU2 is excellent.  His point about the MU1 and separate Tambaqui is that if you use excellent power cables and interconnects, the separates are better.  True, the MU2 also has volume control, but in his world, he is using an amazing preamp which is better again.  So for price and one box convenience, go with the MU2.  For absolute best sound, go with the separates and use good cables.  BTW @jjgasp, both the MU1 and the MU2 serve as Roon core and Roon endpoint.

I also know Bill, and let me assure anyone who was left wondering by a prior posting that Bill Parish is a man of unquestionable integrity. I had the opportunity to A/B compare (streaming the exact same tracks) the Grimm MU1/Tambaqui vs. the Grimm MU1/Grimm MU2 (albeit, unfortunately, with different — but very good in each instance — amplifiers and speakers) within a couple of hours. To my ears, the Grimms together provided a more convincing performance. The other was great, but MU1/MU2 seemed even greater.

@jmeyers why MU1 & MU2 (30k) together?... People are wondering about MMT/MU1 (24k) vs MU2 (18k), and the MU2 's standalone performance and value.

I understand it's kinda the same thing, but why not just A/B the MU2 by itself against the MU1+ MMT combo?

Because the MU1 is a streamer and the MU2 is a DAC. 

The MU2 is a streamer DAC combo.  It also has built in Roon Core and upscaling.

MU1 is streamer only.  It has the Roon core and upscaling, but no DAC.

Both have optional onboard storage for your library.

I use the MU1 and an external DAC.  I do prefer seperates.  I don't want my DAC attached to my streamer in case I want to change one or the other.  that said, there can be some advantages to designing the DAC/Streamer to maximize snyergy, avoid the need for a second set of support equipment (poer supplies, cables, etc).

I've heard nothing but good about the MU2.  In fact I bought my MU1 from a guy who was one of the first buyers of the MU2 over a year ago.

Jerry

The MU2 also has an analog preamp built in as well as a streamer and DAC. It works very well connected directly to an amplifier.  

@rdoc The MU1 has the ability to take an analog input and switch it through to the analog output.  I assume that is what you are referring to.  but it is just a convenience switch, not a preamp.  That assumes I understand it correctly.  I haven't used it.

@carlsbad2 wrote: " The MU1 has the ability to take an analog input and switch it through to the analog output.  I assume that is what you are referring to.  but it is just a convenience switch, not a preamp.  That assumes I understand it correctly.  I haven't used it."

This understanding would not be correct according to Grimm which state the following:  "The MU2 combines a music streamer with a superb DAC and a reference quality analog preamp."

Numerous reviewers have commented on the quality of the preamp in the MU2 as well as the inbuilt DAC.  It is an MU1 and much more.

I use it as a one box solution from Ethernet to my amp.  It sounds superb as well in my opinion and better than many of the separates which I have used. 

@rdoc the question is, is it an active preamp or is it a passive preamp?  what I've described, just a switch, it often called a passive preamp. I still think that is what we have but will look into it.  I have a contact at Grimm that I will ask.

I use my Lampizator DAC for my "one box solution"  I guess I could run the output from my DAC back into the analog input on my Grimm and make it my one box solution.  

So you use your grimm for volume control?  The remote on the grimm MU1 is a phone "app" which is really just logging into the IP address of the machine. Is that what you have?  I found the volume control to occasionally switch to max and do not use it.

Jerry

@carlsbad2  I will defer to you and others on the technicalities of the MU2. John Lavorgna in his review states: "I let its internal analog preamp take over for the internal preamps in the review Triode Evolution 300 and my beloved Leben CS600 and I didn’t feel as if I, or the music, lost anything. In fact there was an added clarity and transient speed that I preferred with the MU2 in charge."

Grimm calls it a "relay based analog volume control".

I use an apple remote to control the volume.  When I change the volume, I hear the relay clicks just like I used to hear on the Ayre KXR preamp which I owned many years ago.

@rdoc Sounds like the MU2 may be different than the MU1, especially on volume control.  I'll look into it.  thanks.

A video interview with the engineer in charge of the MU2's analog section:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2H32t-du14&t=93s

And for those who might be interested, this is the Part 1 interview with Eelco Grimm about the digital section of the MU2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4hy4a91Ov8&t=11s

I would take most any seller’s expressed point of view with a grain of salt. Many reviewers have stated they feel the MU2 is better than the MU1 (or any other comparable server) paired with very expensive dacs, and have told me (personally) that may store owners (in private) felt the the same way, but of course in the case of the latter, their livelihood involves selling SOTA dacs... It seem Grimm is on to something very extraordinary in their technology. Heck, for some the price of a digital cable and power cord is more that the price difference between the MU1 and MU2.. LOL!