2. misc-audio
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Has buying and/or selling audio gear changed?

Hi Everyone, I've been a longtime observer on Audiogon but this is my first post.  I recently ran into a situation that was new to me as I've recently sold some of my gear and I'm in the process of replacing it.  I've used the normal websites (Audiogon, US Audiomart, TMR, etc) and those transactions have been smooth without any issues.  I normally use PP Goods and Services as well as insurance with shipping.  However, I recently was on a website of a well-known individual in the industry who has a piece of equipment that was reasonable priced.  No, it wasn't a "too good to be true" price but was in the ballpark of what one would expect.  As we were ready to finalize the sale, he informed me that he only does PayPal F&F and he won't insure the product for shipping stating this is now the industry standard and it was non-negotiable.  Is this the new standard and all my other recent transactions were non-typical because I used PP Goods & Services and made sure the shipping had insurance to try and provide some protection?  I don't live close enough to buy the gear in person and I've bought and sold across the US and never had a problem but always used Goods and Services for peace of mind for the unexpected issue or problem.  For the record, I'm only interested in conversation that is related to what the industry standard is, not the individual involved here.  Let me know your thoughts.      

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carlsbad2's avatar
carlsbad2
1,602 posts
 

@invalid I disagree.  In  the past, if you sold a personal item, not for a gain, you didn't report it.  Now, since there is a 1099, you have to deal with it.

geof3
1,129 posts
 

This entire discussion goes back to the “buy the seller” concept. Do some due diligence, ask questions, look at feedback. F&F has become more a standard now as PayPal has implemented several new “security” policies that hold money, cause problems with transaction timing etc. Frankly, it is making PayPal less and less attractive to use as a whole. I use F&F now as a seller, I have deep feedback, all positive. If a potential buyer is not ok with that, that’s fine. I generally buy with F&F as well, unless I want to finance the purchase in some way. Then I usually negotiate with the seller at some level. Regarding insurance, as mentioned that’s on the seller. If the item gets lost or is DOA due to shipping damage, that’s on the seller. Their loss if they didn’t buy insurance. Postal insurance is a money grab, it rarely pays out if there is a problem that is shipping damage related. EBay’s systems are an exception. They do a pretty good job, oddly enough.

elliottbnewcombjr
5,349 posts
 

1st Post, alrighty then,

You have clues not to buy from that seller. I simply do not like giving money to someone I don’t trust or like. IF unique, well, how to get it?

I suggest you offer to pay the extra (3%?) for the PayPal Goods and Services fee.

AND, If seller buys insurance on your behalf (again, you pay), be aware, the insurance is in seller’s name, you have to take damaged item to agent’s local office, they have to agree damaged, then seller has to make the claim, be successful, then give you the refund.

 

..........................

USP Pack and Ship

One option for anything, (and if you buy from someone like this) is to use UPS Pack and Ship. I’ve used it a few times successfully. You do not pay seller any shipping cost.

Using seller’s zip code, find UPS Pack and Ship store nearest him (all locations are not pack and ship). You get size and weight from the seller (or online search). You call UPS, get estimate for them to receive unboxed item(s), box, ship, they are responsible for any damage.

Next: seller simply drops unboxed item(s) at the designated UPS Pack and Ship near them , with your name on it. You pay UPS directly, all is in your name. Seller walks away. Note: you want many prior photos showing condition of item(s).

UPS gives you final cost, a bit less or a bit more than the estimate based on their own weight/size measurements.

NOTE: for anything ’local pick up only’, this can be a way to get something, seller just drops it off for you. I’ve done that also, except one stubborn coot in Canada. (UPS Canada has Pack and Ship to USA)

carlsbad2's avatar
carlsbad2
1,602 posts
 

Never ask the seller to buy insurance.  Now you're sharing in the responsibility for safe delivery.  It is fully the seller's responsibility.  Leave it that way.

Occasionally I see sellers saying that insurance is the buyer's option.  I usually respond that it it up to them.  If they are one of the sellers that states "not responsible for uninsured shipments" I generally move on.  not my job to try to set them right.  Also this statement indicates they've had problems before.

Jerry

firstonetallguy
87 posts
 

I am one of those guys who hates to dicker over price.  If I want an item and I think the price is ok, I am interested.  If the price is high to cover lowballers, I am not interested.  So, I am a great buyer.  However, I will never, never purchase any item through friends or family or any manner that takes away my recourse for fraud, damage, or poor quality.  If they do not take PayPal full I will not talk to them.  60 years in retail has shown me to never trust anyone I do not have experience with.  Always cover all the bases.

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