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Help! Antiskate with only a weight...no dial, and she's skating away!

I have a project rpm 10 carbon with 10cc evolution tonearm that has a weight on a string for antiskate. There are three notches on which to attach the string based upon the tracking force range of the cartridge. I currently have an ortofon cadenza bronze tracking at 2.5g and have the antiskate weight in the appropriate notch (according to the Pro-ject manual) from which it hangs. The table is level--checked and adjusted to ensure. The tracking force is at 2.514g (the range for the cadenza is 2.2-2.7 with 2.5 suggested by ortofon) checked with a digital scale (Riverstone Audio digital scale). The soundstage sounds great, vocals are centered, other instruments are placed in space according to the recording... Also the alignment was carefully set up using the WallyTractor and is spot on. 

But sometimes when I lower the stylus to the lead in groove, it will slide very quickly towards the spindle as though no antiskate were present (it doesn’t skip over the record, it falls into the first song groove--and yes I have confirmed that the stylus is present). But it’s a big jump vs just sliding into the groove.

So I found a blank side of an album and lowered the stylus onto the surface and it immediately slid all the way across the surface towards the spindle as though no antiskate were in play. I then disengaged the antiskate weight and experienced the same (expectedly so). But there seemed to be little or no difference between antiskate being engaged/disengaged.

So I engaged the weight again and lowered the stylus, but this time I placed a little extra force on the weight with my finger and was able to get the tonearm to stay in position--applicable antiskate force in play with this extra force. Of course, I have no way of measuring how much extra weight I applied.

The help I need:
Why is the recommended antiskate parameters set by pro-ject seemingly having no effect?
Is something else wrong?
The table and tonearm are obviously manufactured to handle this level of VTF, no?
The tonearm wires don’t appear to be impeding the arm movement.
What can I do to remedy this?
Do I need to do something to remedy this?
I wonder if I’m causing harm to the cantilever with what appears to be no antiskate, yet the music sounds great and the Analogue productions test LP record antiskate tracks "sound" equal to my ears. (But my ears aren’t young anymore, so I don’t think I can place full confidence in that audible test).

Any thoughts, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
cabalaska
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
@lewm , I did not say that skating will decrease linearly over the record. The force is waxing and waning depending on modulation. In average it decreases slightly towards the end of the record playing surface. If the arm could get to the spindle it would increase quite dramatically but not out in the run out groove.  Skating is present everywhere and is in average substantial. As for the 10% of VTF that is not my figure. 9 to 11% is the range generally accepted by the industry and used to calibrate their devices. The Wallskater   https://www.wallyanalog.com/wallyskater  measures this in a clever (but expensive) way. I measure it directly just by turning the force 90 degrees into a stylus gauge. Not rocket science. I am taking it on faith that around 10% of VTF is a good place to be. It is a very difficult thing to ascertain. Just because a certain setting produces the lowest distortion on one test record does not mean it will do the same on any album. Somewhere in that area +- 10% seems reasonable. You can easily hear what happens if you stray to far one way or the other on any test record. At any rate it is nice to have a number to work to. That way I can make sure I am right on something I can not possibly be right on on?

Don't get me started on VPI arms and no antiskating. That marketing stunt made sure I would never look at a VPI product.

cabalaska, make sure that arm got mounted correctly and check the arm length and overhang!!
dover
2,249 posts
 
@cabalaska
Please do this test.

Remove platter.
Remove antiskate weight.
Balance the arm/cartridge to zero - so the arm is floating.

If the arm at zero balance, with no anti skate floats in or out then the arm mount is not level.

This could be the cause of your problem.
Often times turntable arm mounts are not on the same plane as the platter, which means if you level the platter the horizintal arm bearings are not level.
lewm
13,140 posts
 
Mijo, my point is that most of us can’t know how much AS we’ve applied in terms of grams as a certain percentage of VTF. Even those old tonearms with numerical markings on the AS adjuster cannot be taken as units of anything. All one could say is that “5” is more than “4” unknown units of force. 
stringreen's avatar
stringreen
6,474 posts
 
Lewn....what I'm writing in my post above is that when listening, I can clearly hear that when using  skating with my VPI there is shrinking of stage, a closing of the spaces between the instruments, etc.   This may be because of my specific tonearm...I don't have other tonearms to compare.   I encourage all to listen to your system and determine for yourself  the effects of using a/s or not.  What I hear is subtle at first, but when recognized, it is quite clear.  If you can't hear a difference it makes no difference.
dover
2,249 posts
 
 If you can't hear a difference it makes no difference.
That statement is totally illogical.

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