hi, has anyone had the chance to compare the hd3 pc to the lessloss dfpc signature. thanks. |
I wonder too if anyone has directly compared the HD P3 or P4 to the new S.R Element series cables. Those who have your comments are surely welcome....Thx. |
Joeyboynj;
First I would like to say that it is great that you have found a power cable that works for you because in my opinion this passion or hobby should be about enjoying the music not how much money you spend.
Your comments are interesting but just for clarification; There have only been 10 HiDiamond P4 power cables ever imported into North America. Ozzy owns 1 x P4 and several P3 cables and he has done direct comparison to SR power cable. Bacardi owns 1 x P4 and several P3 cables and he has done direct comparisons against SR power cables. Floorplanner has 4 x P4 and several P3 and he has done direct comparisons against SR power cables. We have another 2 x P4 power cables going out for delivery today but they have not been received. I personally have 2 x P4 power cables on my system and the remainder of power cables in my system are P3. There are several 100 P3 power cables that have been sold in North America and I think I have seen 2 on the used market. When people compare the $750 2 meter P3 power cable to any other cables; they tend to do comparisons with cables costing 2-5 times as much. The P4 power cable is a complete different level than P3. Unfortunately P4 takes 30 man hours to build each cable and we are back ordered 2 weeks on our next North American order so that is the only reason more P4 cables have not been imported to North America.
My suggestion would be to do a direct A/B comparison as many of my clients have done and then give your opinion. |
Had floorplanner, Ozzy, Barcardi compare the NEW Synergistic Research Element Power Cords to P3 and P4 directly in their systtems??
I had a P4 lent to me by a friend and bought a P3 used. I compared them to the new Synergistic Research Element Powe Cords and I preferred and liked the Element Series over the HiDiamond. In my system and I.M.O. Synergistic is better. And comparing the prices, they very similar. Actually, the P4 is $200 MORE than the Element Copper/Tungsten Power Cord. And the P3 at $750 I did prefer the comparable Synergistic Element cords at $600 and $900 per cord much better. I.M.O. Replacing my ststem with HiDiamond cables cost just as much replacing with Synergistic Element cables. I chose what was better for me. Thank you. |
"Floorplanner"? Nice try Bob. And I have 5 P-4s, but who's counting, right? (and 5 less wall-warts...)
In my case, it was time for a change. My system is much quieter and more neutral, therefore more natural sounding and resolving than it has been before. This is with very few hours on the P-4's so I'm pretty sure it will get even better after a few hundred more hours.
All systems are different - these have just been my recent experiences comparing the HiDiamond with SR power cables. I have absolutely no desire to try the new version of SR pcs complete with "tuning bullets" and MPCs. My preference is now really just the opposite: to actually HEAR what I have spent many thousands of dollars for, UNFILTERED by "tuning cables" and the like. As I continue to "simplify", and "De-tune", the sound just keeps getting better and better. I wish I had realized this sooner, but I guess its just a part of this crazy hobby as well as a function of the various recent upgrades I've made. |
I think the better matched the system, regardless of price, the less the need for "tuning cables", which is what SR now provides.
J - Of COURSE a SR pc will sound better in an all SR system than ANY other brand, as long as you don't confuse "more of the same thing" as necessarily "better". As I discovered, there is a big difference, or at least there was in my system, between those 2 concepts. I did compare SR Element ics and didn't like them, regardless of which tuning bullet I used. That was enough for me..... |
@Fplanner, I have no desire to try S.R's Element series cords at all. I agree with you 100% as most do. I feel the cleanness of no mpc's, bullets, wires strung all over the carpet. I too enjoy to HEAR what I spent my thousands of hard earned dollars of real unfiltered sound, no gimmicks or anything. Simpler the more real. I wish I realized this sooner but it is just the part of the hobby. It was an experience. But now it's time to listen to the music and topnotch quality, and not the dollar figure. This quality is what very very few cable brands can even come close to and I believe HiDiamond has done it rite with what they've done. And the line of 7-8 years with 1 new powercord(P4) is quite an achievement. The crown of all Kings has done it rite in my experience. And S.R will keep trying with more bullets and more gimmicks, series 2-3-4-5-6-7 etc. as long as it takes more and more adding to the set-up. |
Sorry Fplanner I forgot your 4 meter P4.
Cheers, |
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Bacardi,
The SR MPC wires are driving me nuts. I have limited access behind my system and have to suck in air to get behind there and try to untangle things. I will eventually have a large listening room. Eventualy.
I run SR in series with HiDiamond, Bybee and others to maximize the sonic effects. I have recently added my own modded power cords to the mix and the results are stunning -- flesh-and-blood holography. I don't need to spend thousands of new dollars to achieve excellent sound. I have been able to achieve a lot with a bit of imagination. If you can do something similar then you can get off the merry-go-round and watch everyone else spinning round endlessly -- to the delight of the manufacturers.
Your observation about SR adding more bullets and other gimmicks is spot on. There will be Element SE and then Super Element and then Super Element SE. Just watch and see how long it takes. This is how SR keeps your eyes constantly in motion. Have you seen the long list of SR products people are now trying to dump on Audiogon? Most of these offerings will expire unsold. |
@Joeyboynj, I think what WorldWide Wholesales is trying to say is that they have accounted for all HD P4 power cords in North America , so my question would be; Where did you hear the P4?
I know I received an email from WorldWide Wholesales asking if Joeyboynj borrowed my P4 and the answer was no. |
@Joeyboynj, I think what WorldWide Wholesales is trying to say is that they have accounted for all HD P4 power cords in North America , so my question would be; Where did you hear the P4? BUSTED?? Isn't NJ synonyms for HONESTY? Tell them you borrowed one from the Iranian LoDiamond importer? LOL!!! |
Bacardi,
I just swapped an Oyaide M1 plug and F1 IEC for the stock plug and IEC on the HiDiamond P3. Night and day. Amazing. |
Sabai....what do you mean by 'swapped'?..do you mean changed and if so how difficult is it to 'swap' them ?.. |
Pretty expensive upgrade. |
Calloway,
Yes, I mean changed. It is not difficult to do. You just need a good screwdriver with the right bit. The ends are soldered so they are stiff. Make sure you mark the ground when the wires are out. I only recommend changing these terminations if you are going to use the Oyaide M1 and F1. The less expensive Oyaides do not shine a light to them. |
Ozzy,
Yes -- a very expensive upgrade. But worth every cent. |
Soldered ends... very interesting. The M1 and F1's can be a little tricky if the cables are fat but otherwise it's easy. |
Ozzy,
Can hi diamond put on a Neutrik powercon connector for the Audience conditioners? I have an ar12 and would be interested if they can do that. |
Raks,
Yes, this is a little tricky. The M1/F1 are actually no different from other Oyaide models in this respect. The slots are all the same. You need to turn the screw to make the opening as wide as possible without disengaging the screw from the plate. Then you gently push each soldered end into each slot. A bit of nudging does it. |
Wow Sabai, that's like about a $400 upgrade. That's almost double the price of a P3.....Did that price make it worth the quality increase? |
Bacardi,
Worth every cent. |
Moonguy, I am not sure. I guess you will have to ask Robert from Worldwide.
I know I had discussed with him about getting a power cord with the IEC end detached for possible hard wiring. Perhaps just buy a Neutrik powercon connector and exchange the ends yourself. |
Well,Sabai,
I just purchased several of these
PC-US-GFAL-R
Graphite fibre Power plug (IEC plug, Male)
PC-IEC-GFAL-R
Graphite fibre Power plug (IEC plug, Female)
http://www.vt4c.com/shop/program/main.php?group_id=3&cat_id=1015#909
Looks to me to be similiar to what comes on the HD Power cord 4. |
Ozzy,
They look good but I have no experience with them and I have not tried the P4 yet. I also do a special mod to my P3 and some other power cords that greatly improves the sound. |
@Sabai, I don't understand the reason for changing the connectors on a HD power 3 cord if you liked the P3 sound for its low price point compared to others. You now have made this a $900 power cord and you have just crimped the wire to the connector without soldering them. What are the positive differences with the new connectors compared to the regular P3 connectors? |
Bacardi,
Liking the Power 3 has nothing to do with the price point for me. It has to do with the sonics. I did not crimp the wire because the ends of the Power 3 are soldered. The positive differences are much better sound stage, detail/definition, and tonal qualities/harmonics. I must add that I do my own mod to the cord/connection that improves the sonics even more. This is proprietary. |
The Graphite plugs and IEC's I purchased will not replace what is on my HD Cables.
I plan on making a couple of DIY power cables using high quality silver/ copper wire. |
@Sabai, I absolutely agree with you about sonics. If I was to order the Oyaide M1/F1 male/female connectors could I change these myself without soldering and will I have a definite upgrade similar to what you described as better sound stage, detail/definition, and tonal qualities/harmonics. I really would like to experiment with that if its a no brainer to swap. |
Bacardi,
If you order the M1/F1 all you need to do is take the terminations off the Power 3 and replace them with the Oyaides. There is no soldering required. Just make sure you get the soldered ends tightly into the slots. You have to familiarize yourself with the Oyaide construction first. The aluminum casing screws on and off. And at the base there are 2 screws for stabilizing the cord in the housing. Then there are the two long screws that let you get inside the housing so you can loosen the inner screws to get the work done. Make sure you mark the ground so you don't get any connections mixed up. |
Sabai..if all you do is replace the terminations what is responsible for the improvement in sound..?..just wondering as i am not that electrically inclined..thanks |
The make up... configuation... and construction of the Oyaide M1/F1 is a work of art. |
Raks,
I feel the same way.
Calloway,
With all due respect, there is a world of difference between stock or common terminations and the Oyaide M1 and F1. You have to try them to understand. The more "evolved" your system the more sensitive it will be to this kind of modification. I imagine that inexpensive systems might not benefit as much. |
Sabai..you didn't answer my question. let me try again..HOW/WHY does just changing the terminations of a powercord make a big difference,,?..i am not questioning the change..just wanting to know what causes the change,,i will assure you that MY system is very 'evolved'.. |
Calloway,
The short answer is I have no idea. Frankly, I am not overly concerned about this aspect of the matter because I am not into physics or explanations. I am only concerned with results. If they work that's good enough for me. They work. |
Calloway,
The material of the prongs are different which can give different sound characteristics. The M1/F1 is copper with a layer of platinum and palladium, and I believe the stock P3 is some sort of copper or bronze with a layer of silver. The M1/F1 housing is also made of aluminum and has additional damping which can also affect the sound.
With that said, changing to a better termination will likely result in a different sound...but not always for the better! I've always found that YMMV with your particular system. What would be interesting to see (hear) is if using plug that matches the outlet that its plugged into would lead to even better sound (i.e. using Oyaide F1/M1 or 004 with an R1 outlet, or using a gold Furutech plug with a gold Furutech outlet, etc). |
Sabai..thanks...i was just wondering if you did know the reason.. |
@Yo2tup, I had the same thought about using the same matching string along the way...I have several power 3's going into an S.R QLS9 then into a Teslaplex SE outlet. Wondering if changing the HD connectors to Oyaides then into a R1 or better outlet would have a same characteristic improvement in the end. |
Calloway,
You're welcome.
Yo2tup,
You are right -- YMMV. I have found that the best for my system are the M1 and F1. But they do not improve all cords. I tried them on a Bybee Ultra that is terminated with the 046 series and the M1/F1 did not improve the sound. Which tells me just how well-engineered the Ultra is. I have seen photos of a different Bybee PC that is in fact terminated with the M1/F1. |
Yo2tup...thanks for the reply..that does make sense but, as you say, 'different sound...but not always for the better'.. |
Whoever has HD P4 that they upgraded from HD p3, what is the difference?
Thanks |
Denon 1- The p-4 is quieter with a bit more bass weight and upper end extension out of the bag. As a thicker cable, it also takes longer to break in than the P-3. My p-4s are not broken in yet, so I can't tell you where they will be sonically in 3-400 hours. What I have heard is that they are pretty spectacular at that point, but won't know for a while yet. |
@Denon 1, The P4 performance is greatly improved mostly in the silent / blacker background department. It is extremely silent and the soundstage is a few steps up to me. I would say the dynamics are greater and there is an improvement in the separation of instruments and vocals. Adding at least one P4 in your system is a must to add to the additional characteristic mentioned above to the already amazing dynamics, soundstage, detail, natural realism, focus and dimensiality. |
Bacardi and Fplanner, thank you guys, I was one of those skeptics of the Hidiamonds in the beginning of their rollout in the US - no audition, a lot of praising . .. Long story short, now I have a loom of Hidiamonds for my all system that includes XLR 3, HD 8 SCs and P3 power cords.
One power cord connects Wall ac to power distributor and other two go from the distributor to CD player and amp. For now I have budget only to upgrade one power cord to p4. Which one do you think most critical/effective in my case?
Thank you. |
Fascinating... Fancy seeing you here Harve! |
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@Denon1, try the P4 from wall to power distributor first. Let it break in the hours it needs(400-500 max). You have P3's everywhere else so it's pretty easy to swap later to amp or cd. Have fun with it and find the most notable positive effect/differences possible and enjoy........ |
Fplanner2000, Bacardi, I have tried the P4 from the wall to the power conditioner (Audience) and it is am improvement. But, my CD player (Cary 306 SACD) is also my Dac, so perhaps Fplanner2000 point about using the P4 on the CD player would be the better place.
But then again, my Preamp may benefit with the P4 since everything eventually goes through it.
It is difficult to just swap the cables behind my Audio racks but I will try this weekend.
Anyone else have any experience as to where the best placement for my single P4? All my other powercords are the P3's. |
Once you put it on your CD/DAC, I doubt you'll take it off. :-) |
@Fplanner2000, So I have my P4 on my QLS 9 to wall Teslaplex SE. You think I'll get better results with it on my Integrated Tube amp or my Opp 105(Pre-amp)? Should the P4 also go directly to wall Teslaplex SE outlet then to source. |
