Not proud to admit it, but I think I’m competitive about acquiring sound that makes me happy for the lowest cost.
How competitive are you with your system?
Do you try to rank your system with others’?
Or are you content with enjoying your rig for what it is?
275 responses Add your response
@isellgoodgear Google carlos269 and mastering systems and you will see pictures of my SADIE DSD8 and Weiss BW-102 modular Harmonia Mundi Mastering Digital Audio Workstations (DAW), my Ed Meitner hand-built DSD ADC and DSD DAC units that Ed built for Sony for the development SACD and original SACD releases. you will see pictures of my Fairman (Denmark) mastering equipment and my 18-bit DASH archiving decks that Sony developed for archiving their recordings at the old Sony Classical Studios in New York, You will also see my mastering equip,ent that came directly from Sterling Sound mastering studios. Some of my mastering equipment has been used on platinum selling recordings. Which brings me back to, if your system sounds so fabulous then why are you so afraid to share an audio recording of your system from the listening position that showcases how great your system sounds? |
@daveyf How many different systems have you done the in the room versus audio recording embedded in video comparisons on? Have you even done it with your own system? The interesting thing is that this entire hobby predicates on the concept of being able to capture sound on recordings accurately. I’m not sure how this can be true in the studio, outdoor venues, closets, backyards, and so on but not a reasonable expectation in our own listening rooms. Where does the audio recording of sound fall apart when it comes to capturing audio recordings accurately in our listening rooms but not anywhere else? Care to explain that to me????? You see, if we concede on the premise that sound can be recorded and playback accurately then this whole hobby of ours falls apart. In order to want to playback and reproduce sound accurately, one must first have a belief and accept that sound can be captured and recorded accurately otherwise this whole thing just caves in and falls apart. This isn’t some type of philosophical exercise. When you listen to a voicemail of a relative out in traffic or less optimal location can you still tell who that is on the recording. Some of the famous recordings were captured with a Shure SM-85 microphone in bathrooms and closets. What makes you discount all audio system in room recordings but accept the commercial recording you hear on the radio, those that you purchase or stream online, or the ones you listen to on your system? |
Listening to the systems of my audiophile friends is always interesting and I always try to get them to play records I’m familiar with, so I can compare their systems with mine. But our systems are never really comparable because our rooms are all so different. The listening room is always the biggest variable in audio!
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@isellgoodgear I have already shown you mine. I guess that you are too shy to show yours. All kidding aside, next time I’m in the UK I may send you a message to see if I can come over to listen to that “perfect” system. |
@carlos269 I don’t think the recording per se is the issue with listening on video. The problem is more likely due the reproduction equipment and what one is listening to it on. i have a fairly well liked video on YouTube from seven years ago with my Guarneri speakers playing Miles Davis…but while a lot of folks think it sounds really good, it pales in comparison to what it sounds like in my room. |
@vinylrestingplace There is a huge fallacy with that thinking. The variables between any two systems will NEVER be the same. All the systems that I have here at home are in different rooms and made up of different components. The reason that I’m able to compare them is because the ONLY thing that I care about is the resultant sound at the listening position and that is ALL that I care about and compare. NOTHING else matters to me, the ONLY think that matters and that should be compared is the resultant sound at the listening position. All of those other variables are inconsequential and fully baked into the resultant sound at the listening position. So don’t pay any attention to the room or any other variable, the ONLY thing that matters and that should be judged and compared is the resultant sound at the listening position. The variables will NEVER be all the same but that doesn’t matter as they are incorporated into the resultant sound and that sum of all variable sound is what one hears at the listening position and that resultant sound at the listening position is the only thing that should be judged and compared between systems. |
@daveyf The audio recordings embedded in the videos should be playback and listen to in near-field. When you playback the audio recordings embedded in videos in near-field, it allows you listen to and hear what the microphone (s) captured at the listening position. That is key, to use the same playback chain and to playback in near-field to make the comparisons. Why don’t you post that audio recording of Miles Davis playing on your system that you received complements on? |
@ronboco If you are able to host, give the public access to your server, then you can post the native recording from your phone. The reason people use YouTube is for 1) security reasons as you are not giving strangers access to your server and 2) because if the recordings being compared go through the same YouTube process then you are putting them on an even playing field. |
No one in their right mind disputes that sound can be accurately recorded in one's listening room. But even someone such as myself who has no recording experience comprehends that how it is recorded makes a very significant difference. Someone - maybe it was you - made the argument that a mere smartphone is all that's needed to produce a good-enough quality recording. My experience was this: with my smartphone, I recorded my system playing a piece I am well familiar with. Then I streamed my phone recording to the system that played it while I recorded it. Therefore, the original FLAC file, and the recording made with my phone were heard on the exact same system within seconds of one another. The difference was striking. The phone recording had less than half the SPL, no bass, severely rolled off highs, and no soundstage whatsoever. FM radio vs AM radio. My point is that evaluating system SQ via YouTube videos is inherently fraught, for we don't know how the sound was recorded and, more importantly, processed, in the first place. I have no doubt that a good sound engineer could make a middling system sound better on YouTube than that poor guy's with the model 911 hanging from the wall of his room. |
@devinplombier You should NOT do what you did. By playing the recording back through your system you are doubling up on the room contributions which will have constructive and destructive interference. You need to listen to the recording either in near-field or over headphones, not recommended. Your process of playback used for comparison is very flawed so I’m not surprised at all by the discrepancies between the native playback and recording playback through the same system, and listened to at the listening position. You should listen to the recording in near-field preferably than over headphones because by listening to it near-field you will incorporate the Head-Related Transfer Function (HRTF). When you listen with headphones you skip/omit the HRTF and that will make the audio recording sound different, than what you would hear if you were sitting in the room at the listening chair/position. To put yourself in the listening position as heard if you were there then listing to the recording in near-field is the only method. |
Acquiring a good sound system isn't easy and low cost. I heard many (almost all) unlistenable sounding >$500K audio systems. The better sound isn't equal to more money. It's finding the right people who can help you with the sound. They can help you many ways and YT is easiest way to get help. People, who are getting into audio or want to upgrade their audio, need some guides or reference to set their target sounds. YT lets them hear the glimpse of what they will get for their investment. I'm sure, if A system sounds better than B system in YT video, A system sounds better in real too. Alex/Wavetouch audio |
@devinplombier So how do you explain the exceptional, great and outstanding sound quality of the audio recordings of my systems and those of others? |
That's easy. It's either or both of the following: 1. You have a preference for lossy, compressed recordings. That is not at all uncommon - many prefer the SQ of sources such as Spotify and YouTube, which are inherently compromised by design so as to limit file size. 2. You're watching a video of an audio system, so what you see influences what you think you hear, a/k/a "confirmation bias." |
@cleeds It is obvious that you have not listened to the audio recordings of my systems. The biggest takeaway from listening to them is the inner detail, low level detail, nuance, and resolution of the system’s sound qualities. I have highly resolving systems and that comes through in the audio recordings. When I listen to the audio recordings embedded on videos I’m listening to the sound. If you notice, the image on the video doesn’t change throughout the recording and it isn’t all that interesting once you seen it. You seem to be argumentative without any logic or substance. I support and back up my point of view by submitting audio recordings of my systems. You want to just be a contrarian for the hell of it. Why don’t you tell us about your system and how it sounds, and contribute something constructive for a change! |
I understand that’s what you hear. I don’t dispute that at all.
You’re watching a video so what you see can influence what you think you hear. That’s "expectation bias" and it’s silly for you to think you’re absolutely immune.
YouTube is lossy - dynamically compressed, limited in high frequencies, and lacking in resolution. I understand if you think that's not substantive, but you'll have to accept that others think differently.
I have thousands of posts on A’gon. Please feel free to familiarize yourself. |
You can log-in YT with a Gmail. Or create a Gmail and login YT.
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Hey Carlos. The difference between you and me and setting up systems is you weren’t in the studio producing /mixing/mastering the multi million selling and yes No1 records. I was. you THINK you know what sounds ‘right’ whereas I actually do. My wall of gold platinum and multi platinum discs attests. |
@cleeds You may have thousands of posts here on Agon but as they say, it’s about quality not quantity. It is obvious that our understanding of audio recording, playback, and CODEC technologies are on different planes and what I’m stating is either not registering or you are simply not comprehending it. At this point we are in a circular argument going over the same information and you don’t seem to absorb it. My advice to you is to head over to WBF and join the herd there as they are of like minds and thinking. I have always loved learning from others that know more than I do, but obviously not everyone feels the same way. What more is there to be said on this subject between you and I? I post my audio recordings and let them speak for themselves, what more can I do to drive my point home to you? I’m getting tired of explaining things to you. If you don’t want to be clueless you need to realize that there is always room to learn. |
That's probably true.
No thanks. Herds aren't my thing.
I have no issue with you posting your recordings. |
@isellgoodgear Interesting that you bring up this point as I used to remaster every recording in real-time during playback. So I was able to master the source material to my liking and replay it back. Every time you modify the source you reset what it actually sounds like; therefore I do know what the source material is supposed to sound like. Go back to the drawing board and try again. |
@isellgoodgear Did I mentioned that I conceptualized, developed, designed, and implement a system to adjust the sound reproduction system’s transfer-function in real-time? Through the use of dynamic filtering in convolution decomposition I’m able to alter the sound signature of any system to match the owner’s sound quality attributes preferences. How do like them apples? Ever even thought of a concept like that? Check out the system remastering real-time transfer function adjustment system that I developed for and implemented on my Wisdom Audio Adrenaline Rush (WAAR) based system. Google “There is a smarter way” and “WAAR System”. |
@mihorn @carlos269 I decided that in fact the upper midrange was a bit brash. Rather than being in the upper end of the 10", it was in my tuning of the Heil. I have developed a method of tuning the Heil AMT quite unlike any other yielding a totally different response. I use a "reflector" behind the diaphragm that sends the rear wave forward meeting the front wave. The result is that, using mechanical means, I can produce a fairly flat response from ~3,500 up past audibility. The response drops like a rock below this, even if there were no crossover. This is why the system sounds so detailed and open. The distance of the reflector from the diaphragm controls how much signal is added from ~3,500Hz - >6KHz where the Heil would normally still be "coming in". As the reflector is moved closer, you pick up more in this area, the slope below to the woofer is increased, and the peak in the 10KHz area is reduced. We are talking on the order of >3 dB and the differences are easily notable. Anyway, is was simply a matter of moving the reflectors back a fraction of an inch to tame the upper midrange where it meets the woofer (~1.4 dB reduction) and consequently add a bit more in the 10kHz area. (Every compromise has a tradeoff.) Competition always brings out the best, even if its with oneself based on forum comments. Wanna see what I'm talking about??? https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/im-fixing-a-hole-heil.1025205/ |
That’s easy. It’s either one or both of the following: 1. Divine intervention, or 2. You captured the sound of your system with quality recording equipment then you DSP’d the crap out of it. If I cared to guess, I’d say the latter. I’m not a clairvoyant, I just read your words:
That’s the way I would explain the exceptional, great and outstanding sound quality of the audio recordings of your systems and those of others. See Occam’s razor. I kinda have to say I’m not a fan of the aggro approach. Happy Listening! |
@toddalin This is a perfect example of how to use the audio recordings as a tool for making adjustments to improve the sound of one’s system. This is exactly how I use the audio recordings. Well done. |
@devinplombier Sorry wrong again. First of all there is no system remastering real-time transfer function adjustment implemented on my OKTANG6 system, whose recordings I shared here. Second of all the system remastering real-time transfer-function adjustment system that I developed and implemented on my WAAR system is 100% analog, it is all done in the analog domain so there is no DSP in the system. After developing and implementing the real-time transfer-function adjustment system on my WAAR reference system I challenged myself to develop a new system for my OKTAN6 where I could fine tune the resultant sound by making adjustment through the adjustable transformer based crossovers, again it is all analog with no DSP involved. What you hear in the audio recordings is the sound that the microphone captures at the listing chair position without any processing or adjustment. None is needed as the system really sounds phenomenal and that comes through even through the audio recordings embedded on videos and uploaded to YouTube. You are in fact mixing two different systems based on two different concepts that I conceptualized, design, and implemented all on my own. Sorry to disappoint you but most of my work is original and one-of-a-kind in nature. |
@devinplombier That’s good to hear. Look forward to having intelligent conversations on all audio related things outside of the mainstream. |
@carlos269 this is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOhiTpZCek And another even older vid..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRNfxQRTduA My old system sounded a lot better in real life than these videos portrayed.
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I think your system sounds very close to the original music. The original music has thick veils already that your videos sound some veils too. In fact, both your systems sound more musical/romantic than original music. Nice! Alex/WTA Miles - Fred Freeloader --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOhiTpZCek Noblesse - Gerry Mulli --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRNfxQRTduA |
I have nothing of any great value to add, as I do not own much as an audio equipment that is able to understood unless having the Direct Experience of it in use. My TT is a SP10 MkII mounted in a Panzerholz Pinth but has had a overhaul of the Platter Bearing Assembly and has had a Bespoke Speed Control added. An additional SP10 MkII is also in use but is a Variant of a Kaneta Design and is also using a Panzerholz Plinth/Chassis. The Tonearm is a Bespoke Design The Cartridge is a rebuilt Ortofon using Upper Echelon Ortofon Parts and Parts from other Producers not selected by Ortofon. All Phonostages in SS - SS/Valve Hybrid - Valve Input Output are Bespoke Designs, with Vintage Selected Valves from the 1960’s era. The DAC is a one of a Kind Bespoke Build adorned with 1960’s era Valves. The Pre Amp’ to be commission built is under design. It is unique and will be Bespoke as a Model, it will most likely be adorned with 1940’s / 50’s era Valves already purchased . The Power Amps are commission Built Bespoke Designs of which the Monoblocks were built solely for myself and the most recent purchase is a commission build done for another. A selection of Driver Valves are from the 1950’s era. The selection of Speakers kept for use are in keeping with the above. It becomes difficult to describe what is being created as an End Sound within the Space used for the system, experiencing is the only real way to share the systems attraction. Spending Energy to try and convince an individual of the attraction that is on offer, is going to be an uphill trudge, if met with other energies as a response, suggesting the assessment being shared is a subjective inaccuracy. Defending ones place when experience is the only key to fully comprehend is wasteful of energy and sapping up valuable time.
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As I have said in my earlier post, often what happens to audiophiles and their precious audio systems is the child analogy, “my kid is smarter than your kid”. You can see that evolve here quite clearly. If you enjoy your equipment and system is all the comparison (noise and distortion) really necessary. From my point of view, it looks childish. If competition is good? Then why all the fighting back and forth? |
@daveyf You audio recording of your system playing Miles Davis sounds very nice. It has that classic sound Janis was known for, nice smooth musical presentation. I really enjoyed that and can hear why you received so many complements. I would offer that recording of your old system as a good example of what a good system sounds like. Does your new system not sound as nice on audio recordings? By the way, the second audio recording I didn’t really care for as it sounded a bit stringent while at the same time lacking resolution. Thanks for sharing that. Would love to hear an audio recording of your current system playing the same Miles Davis track. |
@isellgoodgear I agree, enough of the back and forth. You speak very confidently about the sound of your system and all I’m asking for is to make a quick audio recording of it playing one of the tracks that I share of my OKTAN6 system and share it with us. It only takes a few minutes to make the audio recording and to uploaded to YouTube. It will give me a a bit of glimpse of the quality of sound you got going on there and will let know if it is worth the visit next time I’m in the UK. I agree that talk is cheap and that is why I share audio recordings of my systems and you should do the same. |
@isellgoodgear Out of curiosity, what is your system? Can you post a picture of it? Describe it? Now those things will tell us nothing of how it sounds but you speak so highly of it that I’m now curious to see what type of system you have. The audio records do tell you a lot. We have already seen it on this thread how audio recordings of his system helped a member in here make adjustments to refine the sound quality of his system. To me audio recordings of my systems are a very important tool in the system development process. |
Same person recorded Robert Harley’s absolute sound Reviewing Room. His mic is horrible. Usually, I don’t complain about a mic but this mic is too bad. He should listen his videos.RH’s sounds better than I expected but I like your sounds better all day. Hey Strange--- Toddalin Alex/Wavetouch audio
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My system is based round the unique and astonishing Audiopax amp with timbre lock. The latter the most amazing but utterly baffling but also utter revolutionary design of the sadly departed genius Eduardo de Lima. Having mastered how to set it properly that allows me to be confident in the sound in my pretty small listening room. I also use an optical cart on my TT and for digital it’s the aforementioned EMM Labs. I recently added a 2 track 2 c reel to reel. What’s yours Carlos? |
@carlos269 I only offered the two old videos as example of what I feel is the reason why video over the web is not a good way to judge a system. In my examples, what cannot be heard, particularly in the Miles Davis track is the ability of the system to portray depth and also air. While my current system is far superior in all ways to the older versions, I know that the increase in depth portrayal, resolution ( which I greatly worked on) and soundstage definition would not be able to be picked up on a video, since it was not before. |
@isellgoodgear Ok good information. I have way to many systems and equipment to detail and list them all, but they are chronicled and described only. Just use goggle and you will find the details on my “OKTAN6”, “WAAR”, “Pinnacle”, and other of my systems. |
YT video can p-up air and depth fine to me. I made 2 videos. One at 9pm (noisy power) and one at 1am (clean power). Therefore, I always records after midnight. 1am - My Favorite Picture of You 9pm - My Favorite Picture of You Alex/Wavetouch audio
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@daveyf Depth and width of soundstage is a function of the playback speakers as well as the system’s audio recording so yes that is one of the things, along with imaging, that is hard to assess from these system videos as you cannot 100% attribute it to the audio recording, but “air” is well communicated and discerned from system’s audio recordings shot from the listening position. The key is to be consistent with the speakers that you are listening to any two system videos on. |
