How competitive are you with your system?

There is always better if you seek it. At some point I had to say enough is enough. I’ve been on this journey since age 12 and now 71. I’m pretty much satisfied with what I have. I have 6 amps from Pass, Hegal, Accuphase, Macintosh, Electrocompaniet, and Krell. Then there are 12 pairs of pairs of speakers. I can get pretty much whatever sound I want. 

No ranking. No competition. It is a shared journey to reach the most satisfying sound quality for each of us. I don't play team sports. The sports I pursue are either solo... long distance bicycling, mounaineering, SCUBA diving, exploration... one team achieving together. 

If I learn about a characteristic that mine doesn’t have... then it goes into my knowledgebase. Something I might want to include in my own system. 

No rank  but I always use live music and what I consider to be good reference systems as, well, references.  You have to know what the target sounds like first to have a chance to hit it or even come close.  

However were I to rank, my rankings would of course be the correct ones. 🙏

rank against who , owning same speakers , preamp , cartridge .??

Through having developed a Social Aspect to my Audio Interests many many years ago, I have been able to listen to many many systems and introduce others to my own system.

Additionally I have been able to share lessons learned and been instrumental to others decisions being made for their systems futures through doing demonstrations of Audio Devices learned about and adopted through my meeting with others and being very influenced by what has been encountered.

I am not possessive of owned Audio Devices, I am quite Happy to loan items from CD's to Amp's for Short Term or Long Term to do the Rounds.

My most recent Commission Produced Design/Build for a SP10 MkII being a Kaneta Design, housed in a Panzerholz Chassis / Plinth is out on loan for quite a few months, it is with a SP10 MkII owner using a Traditional Chassis Mounted on a Panzerholz as the Plinth.    

In general most of my Listening Experiences are on a range of Systems from SS to Valve with Digital and Analogue Sources, with Off the Shelf and Bespoke Built Designs in use.

Systems Values regularly been listened to are from £200Kish descending to £20K+ish.

It could also be stated if certain systems were created using the most current versions of the Audio Devices available, system Values could easily double in the lower costing areas. 

I have come to learn System Value, means very very little where End Sound is concerned. What does stand out, is Synergy being created in a System.

There have been times during a Social Get Together where a swap out of a device for an alternate device has been jaw droppingly good and immediate arrangements have been made to continue the marriage of devices.

Would I aspire to the 200K system - No, I have heard as impressive for substantially less monies. Would I aspire to a Lesser Costing System - No, my own experiences of end sounds that can be produced in my own system is more than enough for my needs.

As a Group of Interested Individuals who enjoy Audio Equipment and listening to replays of Recorded Music, there is enough available to help each system owner gauge where their own choices for their own Audio Systems has been wise choices and maybe not as wise as one would like. Fortunately with regular meetings, the not so wise choices are pretty much no longer an issue, the changes that have proved very valuable are resident in systems.   

Stopping being a Listener Locked Away in their own Private Space and becoming a Social Listener where Open Door to Others is the Intention, Transformed every thing about my interest in Audio Systems and Listening to recorded music for the much much better.        

You have know what the target is first to have a chance to hit it.

I can't agree more. I should know what I have which might hurt me later. The sound impacts the human health more than we know. And it's natural to avoid the bad sound (too many systems and speakers hurt our ears). 

The pursuit of best sound is relative and knowing what's available is essential. Comparing the sound of mine to other systems is a easy way to do so.

The audio companies must make the better sound equipment. Their sounds are stuck for last 100 years and the sound is actually getting worse in my opinion. Listen to TV and radio music. All new songs and recordings are tipped up and sterile sounding that I lose interest in few seconds. When I turn on the radio news, I must careful and select certain better sound station cos some stations sound hurt my ears.

My system is absolutely the cleanest sound system (most refined) and I'm still trying to improve it knowing how important my work is for the future of all sound products. So, I can enjoy distortion/veil free recordings and smooth/clean sound radios. Alex/Wavetouch audio

My system is constantly competing with me.  And it usually beats me.  It has totally dominated me in checkers; I can still occasionally win a chess game, but those victories are rare.

Matthew,

Have you tried Parcheesi?

I don't compare. That is a fruitless venture

Mostly I can't compare many of my components to others as many are custom builds or highly modified. I don't even understand comparisons in many cases as our systems, rooms, ears so unique, difficult to apply a single reference to anything. 

I presume monetary value of our components/sytems is the main point of competitiveness within this community.

" Comparison is the Thief of Joy "

I have shared this numerous times on this forum over the past few years.

One can spend oodles of hours fretting over what they have not got, the trudge to discover where one needs to go next is a heavy residual at ones feet and is not going to yield any worthwhile results if other factors are not addressed.

Our Hobby is about Entertainment, Enjoyment, as a result of Musical Encounters.

Musical Encounter is the End Sound, everything Upstream of Produced End Sound is not Sound it is electrical energy being managed.

End Sound is the conversion of the electrical energy, where the energy manifests as a unconstrained release of the energy into a Space which forms Sound. 

The Space the Released Energy is Interfacing with, has a substantial influence and does a lot for shaping the Audible Experience of being exposed to the Audio Systems produced End Sound.

There is not an Upstream Device that is going to have any influence on the Space the Energy is released into, Up Stream Devices do not Remodel Space.

How does comparing Audio Devices in a particular Space have any real influence on the End Sound produced in that Space. 

Remodeling the Space the End Sound is being heard in, will do more for changing ones perception of the Quality of the Sound, than any Audio Device change ever will.

Only then might one be able to really give accurate assessments to changes made within a system.    

Being that humans are social creatures comparison and competitiveness always waiting in the wings. And success in the material world measured by the value of one's material wealth and possessions. So one must surmount much and remain mindful in order to not succumb to the competitiveness. @pindac I really do believe some take pleasure and joy from the competitiveness. 

Being a Person who had many a occasion in the Company of Individuals Known, Not so Known and never met, with the Objective of being in the room to experience a audio system and then an audio system with different Sources added or other Devices attached in place of a resident device.

I have heard broad ranges of brief comments, I have heard many good quality descriptions and fair assessment where some are quite different from your own perception of what was being created as a End Sound.

I have come to learn individuals are unique when it comes to listening and the impact of a aesthetic. Some are Lower Frequency Sensitive, Some are Upper Frequency Sensitive and in general each has their own preference for the cohesiveness of the blend of the range of frequencies. Some are genuinely anticipating something special as a result of visually observing and not hearing, I have seen an item selected as potentially the star of the say, as a result of Polished Metal being the design.

What I am not seeing from individuals is Competitiveness as a common meaning - "the quality of being as good as or better than others of a comparable nature ", this does not show for the audio equipment loaned to the system in use either.

Conviviality, Jovial behaviour in conjunction with Musical Encounters and a Little Learning is key and the fundamental. 

Selections are not marked as a Judging, selections made are based on where it is unmistaken something valuable occurred and the device capable, might prove well introduced to other systems.

I have encountered Speakers that are not too difficult to transport used on system in a unique Space and been very very impressed. The same Speakers in a different Space and with a different system has not been as an impressive a End Sound.

Is the System change not creating a synergy with the Speakers, not letting them sing as they had on anther encounter?

Is the Room the Speakers are being used in not modelled in a way that allows the Speakers produced Energies to be tamed and not be contaminated with colouration from the room interfaces?

Was I as a Listener / Assessor not in the Spirits I was on a previous occasion and was not able to discover the mood that was generated on an alternate musical encounter?

I don't see Competitiveness at the area of the audio interest where produced End Sound is being an encounter.        

My system is the best system ever. We’re talking tone like you wouldn’t believe. Texture is off the charts.  Soundstage? So wide it makes your living room feel like Madison Square Garden. I’ve had audiophiles — big-time people, very serious ears — come over and they’re trembling. Tears in their eyes. One guy said it was better than his wedding day. Everyone says it.

Sounds like a genital measuring contest? Why would anyone be competitive with their system? It would be the most anti-audiophile thing ever.

I am finding this thread disturbing.

@gano “l am finding this thread disturbing”

@bjesien ”Tears in their eyes”

@rvpiano “Comparison is the thief of joy”

@immatthewj “My system is constantly competing with me”

All above good comments sum this discussion up. Some sincere, some piss taking.

There is only one logical solution for all those who obsess and need to compare. Enter your equipment/system love child into a tournament with other self-minded show offs.

Reminds me of those demented mothers who enter their dressed up offspring into those despicable all singing and dancing child pageants.

I find the notion that I am competing against anyone absurd.  I think we are all in some sense fighting against a world that fails to place value on the joy of sound reproduction 

Of course everyone compares their system with others that they hear. It’s just in our nature being competitive. And I’ll bet  most everyone always  thinks their  own system sounds better whether it does or not. Happy listening! 

I don’t have to be competitive. My system is better than everyone’s lol

Stop Capitalizing words Unnecessarily.  It's really Annoying!

I spend my money how I want, I could careless what others think of my music room, I like to hear others systems but it does not effect what I think of my own, to each there own

Sorry @rvpiano ”Comparison is the thief of joy” was a quote by @pindac 

After quitting golf as a hobby during Covid, two-channel music listening took its place and has become my main—almost only—hobby, aside from jogging. However, I carried over a similar sporting spirit: I only compete with myself. In fact, golf is probably the only sport that truly allows one to compete against oneself. My goal in golf, which gave me a sense of accomplishment, was breaking 80.

My goal for my stereo system is to create a tonally accurate, balanced, palpable, and immersive 3D listening space. It’s not an ambitious goal on paper, but it has taken me a long time to achieve. The good news is that it doesn’t require fancy or expensive gear, and my setup includes:

Wiim Ultra (DH Labs Mirage / Cardas Clear USB, 0.5m) → Gustard U18 (DH Labs HDMI 2.1, 0.5m) → Harmony μDAC (Mogami quad XLR) → Parasound A23 (Belden 5T00UP) → Wharfedale Linton.

And after nearly four years of continuous effort, I’ve finally arrived. The Linton remains unforgiving of poorly recorded music, but at least I’ve tamed it. As a reward, it delivers tonal accuracy, balance, and a wide, tall, and deep soundstage that extends well beyond the speakers, which are placed 11 feet apart, 4 feet from the front wall, and toed in by 10 degrees.

No competition with others along the way—just my own continuous journey of learning and improvement, if that answers your question, Mr. OP.

Competitive? No. Instructive as a learning experience? Absolutely. I learned to listen critically having the original Quad Loudspeaker beginning in 1974 and experimented with augmenting it with ribbon tweeters and a subwoofer. Although that made for a bigger, fuller range presentation, I don't think the results were necessarily "better." I remember hearing the original Wilson WAMM (which also employed an electrostatic midrange) and came to a similar conclusion--it lacked overall coherence (at least in the set up I heard). 

I first heard full sized instruments over a friend's system comprised of the Duntech Sovereigns. This was in the late '80s. It was a very good system, but there was still something I liked about the apparent immediacy of stats. I heard the big Martin Logan Monolith(?) a very large electrostat at a salon in Paris with full Jadis tube amplification-very good on certain things. These listening experiences gave me exposure to what was possible.

I eventually switched, in around 2006, to horns using SETs and have been happy with that path of high efficiency, low power. I especially like the tonal character of the Lamm ML2 which in some ways defines the voice of this system. I still keep a vintage electrostatic system in my lounge, but it is more of a period system than any attempt at state of the art.

I've heard bigger, "better" systems than mine but all of it is "data" to inform me, exposure to what is possible being the key. It has helped me improve what I've done, though in some ways I've always considered myself an outlier--not following the traditional path. I don't regard any of this as "competitive" but probably "comparative" in the sense that it has informed me. 

I have the best audio system in the world and my dad can whip your dad.

@lanx0003 

Beware of isolating yourself and finding little to do outside of the home. If I gave up golf, I would have few relationships outside my PT job that provides a minor amount of human interaction but is hardly fulfilling. 

After attrition doomed my Sunday morning roster of golf friends (a couple years before the pandemic) I joined a club to ensure I would have some golf tournaments to attend in order to satisfy my competitiveness. It is expensive, and I resist paying the grand each year in order to get on the club Whatsapp list to be included in the weekly tee times. I was worried about the political interaction with others, but found that golfers generally find other topics of consideration out of respect. It has been rewarding to compete again and winning and losing is just what it has always been- a time to feed the ego when I win, while realizing my own shortcomings when I lose. 

I too, have the Wharfedale Lintons and your setup measurements are nearly exact to mine. They were the one upgrade that got my wife interested in what I was doing. (I would surmise it generally is always the speakers). Before that, I was generally ridiculed over the spending of monies seeking resolution. The Lintons arrival a few years ago was the moment that the wife took notice and started to realize my goals. That was a win.

So each year I recognize that I am spending an extra couple of thousand on golf that I could spend on upgrading my rig. What do I have to show for it? I would say a fuller life. More friends. A schedule that does not have large gaps to fill. 

Tangible items, like stereos, are going to be someone else's someday. I have nightmares that when I pass, my younger wife just jettisons my gear for pennies on the dollar! I fathom that I will be looking down from above while she gives away cables that are, "just laying around". Maybe she will throw in those Ping clubs to close the deal! 

So it is about the journey. Being an audiophile is as much in your head as the game of golf. You would be remiss to leave one for the other. Maybe now that you have reached a certain sound nirvana, it is time to buy a new set of clubs!

the satisfaction of my system is in what it does, not where it ranks. human nature does have a vote so the thoughts about how it compares to other systems is real, but i view that more about learning and sharing ideas, than the need to be better than this or that system. the rank part can get in the way of being open to other ideas.

not sure ’content’ would be how i would describe my perspective on my system state over the last 30 years. it takes a hunger for better to keep pushing. and for years i had that hunger.

my motivation to work on the system and improve it is to have it deliver the musical experience. within that idea is my desire to have the music media at it’s best sounding too. which then pushes me to find the optimal sources and physical media.

for years i was in an improvement mind set, driven by what might be possible, not what others are doing. but these days i’m done and just enjoying.  it fun to see others keep pushing, and i’m fine on the sidelines in my happy place. if rank was what drove me this part would hard. but it’s the best.

being retired i bought a motorhome and jeep to tow and my wife and i are now adventuring. we might downsize our home and so my room would be likely downsized considerably. life goes on and we will see how that all works out. in the meantime i’m just enjoying the music every day.

@goodlistening64 Great points.

I recall having great envy when hearing or reading about systems far better than mine in early days. I dreamed that some day I could have a system that could compete with those, this was the single greatest motivating factor in building audio system. 

I'll posit competitveness drives all of us at some point along the road, we likely all have references for the sound quality/qualities we'd like to attain. We compare our systems to those and we strive to equal or better that system. I very much recall going to this local audio show many years, and thinking for the first time my system  had superior sound quality vs every system there, this was one of those peak experience days when I finally felt as though I had reached the heights. And then you hear better systems and the journey continues.

Comparing our own systems to some reference is in fact a competition. It may be all about equipment for some, for others it may be mostly or entirely about reaching some reference for sound quality. The fact reaching for some reference for sound quality may be considered a noble goal is fine, but don't fool yourself this is not competitive in some sense.

My system is always in competition with my budget. That being said, I like my current system fine even knowing that it cost less than what most AG members paid for their speaker cables. 

In the Link there is another's 'Take' or a 'Take' that is agreed between a group that is to be Published for another group to see and read.

https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-critical-listeners-lexicon-tas-207-1/

Using the Guidance on the Link for experiencing End Sound being Produced and then extending  the same Guidance to be used in a situation like I have already referred to,  " Being a Person who had many a occasion in the Company of Individuals Known, Not so Known and never met, with the Objective of being in the room to experience a audio system and then an audio system with different Sources added or other Devices attached in place of a resident device.

I have heard broad ranges of brief comments, I have heard many good quality descriptions and fair assessment where some are quite different from your own perception of what was being created as a End Sound. "

With the Guidance in the Link, Strongly Advising for the Assessor to be solely Subjective in making a evaluation. The more individuals in the space and having different positions in the Room in relation to how they are symmetrical to the Speakers. There are to be numerous versions of the description applied to the assessment as a Critical Listen.

If a Listeners Symmetry to the Speakers as a result of their listening position is Pertinent to being able to comment on the End Sound being experienced.

Is not most comments raised as an assessment when a Group is the assessing panel, askew with supplied info, even flawed as a Info.

I strongly recommend one decides for themselves only, but limited only to how they sense they have been impressed.

If one has been exposed to an experience of an End Sound that made a good impression, then for this individual the end result is fine, it is worth sharing, as the info is healthy to pass on.

If one as been exposed to an experience of an End Sound that made an extremely good impression, being one they want to further investigate for being maintained, then for this individual the outcome is more than fine, it is an experience more than worthy of sharing, as the info is healthy to pass on. 

Is there really a chance another, who reads good reports, is going make arrangements to have a very similar experience, where the impression made is creating a similar impact on them? 

Very happy with system(s)...though often think about possible upgrades or changes...

Not competitive but always willing to help and even learn.  As a manufacturer and repair service we get to hear so many components.  SO we are always learning.  We enjoy when people come to hear their repaired product and ask to hear theirs versus ours.  We offer upgrades so they can get better sound for their ears.

It is always nice to meet new people.  Most are very genuine.

Happy Listening.

I’ll posit competitveness drives all of us at some point along the road

I disagree. I have never for a second wanted something audio related to have what others had, to have more, better than what X had. Never played a role. It would be insane if that drove me as it has zero to do with good sound quality - which is why we are in this hobby. .

my motivation to work on the system and improve it is to have it deliver the musical experience

for years i was in an improvement mind set, driven by what might be possible, not what others are doing

yes, fully agree. And this is from the member here who invested 100 times (probably more zeros) more time, money and energy into building a "winning" system than me for example

I just really like music and if it sounds great all the better. Being thankful to be where I am and live a comfortable existence leaves no room for petty competitions. Phallic or otherwise.

@pindac

"Stopping being a Listener Locked Away in their own Private Space and becoming a Social Listener where Open Door to Others is the Intention, Transformed every thing about my interest in Audio Systems and Listening to recorded music for the much much better."

I love this idea, but how to manifest it? Engaging other audiophiles to spend time together listening to each other's systems has been, for me, hard to realize. Everyone's busy and very few seem to have the level of interest and inclination it takes to do what you've done.

But kudos to you for getting there!

Great thread!

I am by nature a competitive person. Always have been. However, in my primary hobbies I am more into being the best I can be. This goes for writing, woodworking, and my sound systems. 

There are some really expensive set ups that I just do not enjoy. I lucked onto a pair of used Acoustat 1+1 speakers over thirty years ago. Love the sound. Maintain them well. My system is built around them. 

I am very happy with my system.

@ronboco 

"I’ll bet  most everyone always  thinks their  own system sounds better whether it does or not."

That is so true. I almost never like anybody else's system, and they probably don't like mine either! lol.

@mylogic 

"There is only one logical solution for all those who obsess and need to compare. Enter your equipment/system love child into a tournament with other self-minded show offs."

Of course I know you're joking here, but I actually think it's a good idea. We ought to have a competition (a friendly one of course ) to see what systems really are superior.

I feel we all default to "everyone's ears are different / good sound is subjective" much too quickly. I happen to think that if we took the same 3-5 people and had them listen to the same 10 systems playing the same 2-3 records (I'm an all analog guy) there would in fact be consensus as to which systems reproduce those records the best.

Anybody game? I live in the SF Bay area.

@bjesien 

"My system is the best system ever."

You sound like a good candidate for my system competition idea! Do you live in the SF Bay area?

My system is my system for my ears and my preferences and lastly to suit my room.

Started in 1976 and finished in 1998 with the exception of carts and CD players.

In chronological order of purchase date....

Marantz 2325 (1976)

OHM Walsh 4 (1986)

Heybrook TT2 & LVX (1998)

Nakamichi PA-7A MKII and CA-7A (1998)

Currently use an AT33PTG/II cart and a Yamaha CD-C600 CD player.

Not competitive at all. I grow from other's experiences and systems.

Same here. I want to help people.

So many people struggles with audio sounds for their lives. Life time upgrade, merry-go-round, without a promise of better sound and numerous disappointments should be changed by now after 150 audio history.

The world is filled with bad sounds which we must deal with every days such as bad sound radio stations, cell phone spkr, etc. Consider why many non-a’philes, spouses, and hi-fi haters don’t like this hobby. I believe I’m a frontier for the true meaningfully better sound. And you won’t lose any thing with my discovery/journey.  Alex/Wavetouch audio

bigkidz   Not competitive but always willing to help and even learn.  As a manufacturer and repair service we get to hear so many components. ~~~ It is always nice to meet new people.  Most are very genuine. Happy Listening.

My take is that I think it’s almost impossible not to wonder how your system compares to others’.  I believe it’s human nature. 

@thebrokenrecord 

“I actually think it’s a good idea”

l am flabbergasted. My flabber has never been so ghasted. A tournament is not such a crazy idea? Look at Woodstock, or Glastonbury that were just someone’s idea.

Your tournament💡moment is maybe not so illogically impossible. There are DJ and gaming tournaments so why not?

l think @mihorn is a candidate having actively and professionally promoted his modified gear, and has confidently self-praised his own projects. 
 

Of course the USA is a big country to get everyone interested together.

Such a competition would be logistically not easy unless you demo REALLY LOUD!

How my system compares to others could not be more irrelevant. I've been in the live music biz forever (or at least since the 60s), and an audio geek for as long, so I know how to get my system sounding to my tastes...everybody does that, possibly to varying degrees of success. I don't schlep other systems into my listening space like a reviewer, and neither do most others. There are cult like adherents to room conditioning, floating cables, magic fuses, etc., none of whom make much sense to me, and I'm perfectly happy with that. Since most of my friends aren't audio geeks their attention span when I try to show them some new item often peaks in 3 seconds. This is a solitary hobby for me, my wife likes the way things sound, and I change things in my system when I feel like it. 

That's a losing proposition and not healthy. Be happy with what you have and if you want to "upgrade", don't do it out of envy of someone else's stuff. 

"competitive" isn't the the same as being able to compare.

Everything I do with my love of music is for me. The guy who was the best man at my wedding happily still uses the receiver and speakers that we bought when we were in college.  My brother happily listens to his tunes through his phones speakers. I have another friend who has a system that probably costs $400,000-$600,000 and he probably listens to it a hour a month.  If they are happy, I am happy.  Absolutely no need for competition here.

Oh and my dog isn’t better cause he eats Kennel Ration either. ( do they even still make that stuff?)

1) Nope.

2) Yup.