As a personal aside, as a young man, for several years I attended
musical events almost every night of the week, most of which were
unamplified. To this day I find that while tube amps can sound pretty,
they don’t sound like the live performances I attended...unless a
musician used a tube instrument amp during the performance. I'm guessing that isn't learned other than your ear is a bit more trained and you've not heard the right tube amp... yet... ? I play bass and keyboards and from junior high through college and afterwards I played the string bass in a variety of orchestras around town, as well as jazz and folk ensembles. You'd think I would have learned the same thing as you but I didn't, I found that solid state amps of the time were simply incapable of a natural presentation. So it was the opposite 'learning' from yourself (and not discounting your experience in any way). Since both experiences are subjective and anecdotal, is that the sort of thing we can ignore for this conversation or is that exactly what this conversation is about?? |
Note that recording studios often are the worst places to listen to instruments (unless it's a large great sounding room with good acoustics...Abby Road has one) as they're designed for recording into microphones. Many charming little pro studios manage to do recording very well, but they're not concert halls or often even good sounding rooms. Kind of not the point. These days you can carefully record things clearly and cleanly in your closet. |
Someday we will begin to understand the relationship between sound waves and how the brain reacts to them. For now it seems we know
about 1/2 of 1% of what can be known.
How do people who could not memorize 3 lines know when
a musician plays the wrong note after only hearing it once before?
Or even if they never heard it before?
Musical sounds occupy a special place in the brain that allows total recall of everything ever heard. This is fascinating to me.
The real question is whether or not someday we will have learned
how to build a sound reproduction system in a way that is
indiscernible from live music.
We have a long way to go before that happens so do enjoy the ride!
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The answer is to have a great SS Amp and a great Tube Amp...no problem! |
@atmasphere , For the purposes of this discussion, and for the very reasons you suggested; please feel free to ignore the last paragraph of my previous post on this thread that began with: “As a personal aside....” I will add that my experiences suggest that what one hears from the typical audience perspective can be quite different than what one hears from the performance band stand. |
The answer is to have a great SS Amp and a great Tube Amp...no problem!
That's a recipe I've heard many times and it sure sounds purty, especially with very hard to drive ESLs. |
@atmasphere , For the purposes of this discussion, and for the very reasons you suggested; please feel free to ignore the last paragraph of my previous post on this thread that began with: “As a personal aside....” I will add that my experiences suggest that what one hears from the typical audience perspective can be quite different than what one hears from the performance band stand. |
I will add that my experiences suggest that what one hears from the
typical audience perspective can be quite different than what one hears
from the performance band stand. That's certainly true! |
i do not see it being so complicated. you either love the sound of the music or you do not.
when i first heard a sweet sounding Raven Audio tube amp Ioved the sound so much i bought it on the spot. no learning involved.
imho learning would mean preferring sub par sound quality because you are accustomed to it. an acquired taste for bad sound... |
I hope I am remembering the proper name, but as I recall, Jame Parker of Audio Research has been said to intentionally add second harmonics his amps. Also, the original Sequerra Model 1 tuner was said to have such, which made it sound very sweet and musical. I think this is why so many people prefer tubes.
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I find the concept thought provoking. Not the usual measures vs sounds. Not the usual ss vs tubes. Makes me think about how much as cigarette companies altered nicotine levels, food manufacturers alter: fat/ salt/sweet to find “ perfect food addiction “ levels- too much of any one makes enjoyment lower.
I ‘ve had my kids listen w me for years. We don’t always have the Same perception or words to describe-
I remember when my son was about 5 changing crossover settings on a pair of speakers he said something like :”this one’s louder, but I liked the other one better”.
I asked why, what did he hear, he said:” It was more together”.
I told him I thought so too.
That said, I remember my father building Eico tube gear at the kitchen table.
I didn’t care for the hum as a kid.
But after listening to ss gear for years, got a wild hare, took his old Eico gear into local shop, had them clean it up & get it working right, it was beautiful- eye-opening!- Not sure how but they even decreased the 60 cycle hum-
maybe he didn’t build it that well.
Learned?
You tell me.
Funny aside- years ago, I was in high school- Dad sent me to local shop to get replacement tube- cuz one tested bad on the machine at the 7-11. When I drove to the shop, sales guy said best to replace all power tubes at once- EL-34s.
no cell phones then, asked to use store phone to call my Dad.
He said:”There’s only one Goddamn tube that’s bad- just get one!”
So I paid ~ $8 for the single (Mullard) tube & went home.
Ft Worth, Tx 1970 something.
i do prefer tube gear now.
Learned?
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Learned?
Great story , great read thanks! Most things we think are the better are social conformity conditioning, but this remark does not negate the fact that a very good tube amplifier has his own qualty, but only relativized it... My best wishes to you.... |
The late psychiatrist and writer Oliver Sacks has a book, Musicophilia, that I think addresses some universal human preferences for harmony and against dissonance. It’s been a while since I read it, but as I recall the preference is found in some animals as well. You might look for it. Even if I remember it completely wrong, it’s a good book, like all of his writings. |
