Just spoke to an old client of mine..........Avantgarde owner


This gentleman is unhappy with his Avantgarde Trio XD, because his current room is smaller, and he is hearing the discontinuity, between all of the drivers, from his listening seat. I have been stating this " phenomenon ", for as long as I can remember. It is why many designs, imo, are a poor choice, for the average sized listening room. Not just this, but my ears are very critical with designs, that have a conventional woofer, along with a horn, or panel type, midrange / tweeter. These designs are known as Hybrids. I hear this discontinuity, every time. As a horn guy, as much as I can enjoy some horn hybrids ( a simple and well executed design, such as the Altec 19, and yes, I owned a few pair and made mods to  several ), I find I cannot, long term, hear a convincing presentation. Bass, up to the crossover point, is so different, than the horn. This of course, is a very personal thing. I am a Klipsch guy, and love the KPT series, along with the Jubilee, but I have been involved in arguments with folks, who think I am crazy ( here, and on the Klipsch site ), about using speakers of this design, in a regular and average sized listening room, where the distance to me, is just TOO DAMN CLOSE. This Altec and the Klipsch designs I speak of, are of two different phenomenons.This is me, and I never attacked anyone who enjoys this type of set up, but I have been questioned ( even attacked ), by individuals, who seem clueless, to what my ears hear. Just wanted to put this out there, and will be presenting some discussions and experiences , I have had, and want others feedback. No right or wrong in this, as we all hear differently, want things differently, and so on, which I also stated, many times. Enjoy, be well and stay safe. Always, MrD.
mrdecibel
I found it very tricky to get the Duo, the smaller horn/hybrid, to cohere- crank the woofers to get impactful bass and they sound discontinuous with the midrange horn; back off the woofers and you improve coherence but the speaker is bass shy. I solved the problem through a combination of positioning in a fairly large room, and adding subwoofers that begin rolling off at 55 hz. I also use DSP on the subs which improves their performance in the room. That, and a change in cartridges, has given me the best performance I’ve ever had from the Duo. Part of the problem may be that the woofer system is playing somewhat high in the range (I’d have to look at where they can cross over, but the difference in character between the horn and dynamic drivers can be exaggerated by some settings).
The Trios would be a hoot with the manufacturer's bass bins. Tres cher, though. Horn loaded woofs would be almost mandatory with the Trios even if they weren’t sourced from Avantgarde. It is sad that the price/value ratio is so poor with the producct- the are now very expensive in the U.S.
I think separate bass bins or subwoofers is a good thing to enable an optimal and coherent setup with larger horns.  
I have a pair of Duo XDs, in a large room and I sit well back from them. No problem with integration of the drivers. My only hesitation on getting them was that I knew it would constrain me to larger rooms. I will just have to be sure the listening room is a priority for the next house!

I have also listened to the Trios, I actually preferred the Duos or Duo Mezzos to them. I think the Trios need a really large room.
I agree, your room, and your future room when you move (a few times perhaps), can be different, even hugely different than when successfully auditioned elsewhere and purchased. Or, bought based on high consensus of reviews/owners.

They may not seamlessly blend as designed/measured at that distance in that room within those decor limitations.

driver level controls: my vintage 3 way speakers have ’brilliance’ and ’presence’ rear controls.

They can work to modify the relative volume driver to driver (after the crossover has done it’s frequency division work). (I’ve tried equalizers, but they work prior to speaker crossover, never got results I preferred).

tricky, or very tricky, but if carefully adjusted, a lot of patience, some help from tools/controls/friends they can improve results, ’save the day’, some, or entirely.

even more tricky, because they are interactive, like an old carburetor, fuel mixture interacts with idle speed, adjust presence changes horn mid before you change brilliance, etc.

15" woofer, horn mid, horn tweet. new enclosure, drivers from fisher president console, from 1958. Electrovoice Drivers, electrovoice crossover, Ceramic/copper wound rheostats (no brand). 16 ohm. they can be seen in one of the pics in this eBay listing

https://www.ebay.com/itm/133527873619

I have used these speakers in 3 separate rooms, and with a variety of tube and ss pre/amps.

My av consultant’s pro sound meter achieves mathematical balance driver to driver and side to side (lot of work/patience/start/break/back at it). However, like my JSE Infinite Slope Model 2’s, the most accurate speakers I have owned, after several years, you might decide perfection is too analytical. I happily went back to my tubes, horns and LP’s.

McIntosh Preamp’s Mode Control has been the true successful tool for this, combined with very very familiar music.

see pgs 6 and 7. it was new for my current mx110z; and I used it on my SS C28

http://www.berners.ch/McIntosh/Downloads/MX110_own.pdf

To get the full range of frequencies of a piano, matched so no wander occurs side to side, no slight height movement out of imaging, oh boy, however, once achieved, you can think of them as if the speaker designer came and designed an individual crossover for your room. Move to a new room, like the shampoo says, ’repeat’.

get Cassandra Wilson’s full range to refine mids, again, no wandering relative to frequency.

also, our hearing changes as we age, and not always symetrically, so adjustment ability can be an asset, again, that McIntosh Mode switch a huge help.
I appreciate everyones feedback. Duke, I completely comprehend every thing you say. With my background, I am still so limited in speaking of those things as you do. And as a speaker designer, I am sure considerations are made by you and applied to many of your clients. Dutch and Dutch are products I have not heard, and sound intriguing. However as I stated in my 2nd comment, Greg Roberts, at this time, would be my go to speakers, Vittora / 2 ELFS, and Marchand. I know the design and are quite comfortable with them, in my current location, or any future location I might be in. Well, maybe not when my son moves me to an old age facility. That, hopefully, is a long way from now. Thank you.......Enjoy, be well and stay safe !