LAST???? Has anybody tried this?

Casey(extremephono) was telling me that he thought it was merely 3M 300 grit.Not sure how this would do in the nooks and cranies.He is sending a product he markets which is a sticky solid compund simmilar to what Fremmer metioned in an article recently except it's a hell of a lot cheaper than the one in the article costing $75.I'll post as to what I think but hey even now my guess is it couldn't hurt if used in conjunction with another form of cleaning though as he states earlier in thread he's against the lquids.Get in touch with him here or see what he has on ebay at www.extremephonp.com.He might not be a shameless self promoter but he's steeredme right in the past about Linn so I thought I'd give him the plug.

In fact, now that I recall, Linn were giving out matchbooks with the Linn logo on them bearing the inscription of "Linn Stylus Cleaner". I saved one for many years, but lost it in the last move.

When I worked at a Linn dealer, Ivor Tiefenbrun himself was visiting our store, and used a match striker to clean the stylus. When we questioned him about it, he said it was the best way to clean a stylus, as long as you knew it was a well made one, and you know since it was a Linn cartridge, he knew it was a well made one. I used a match striker to clean my Linn Karma stylus for years thereafter, and found great results with no damage, even though the thought of it is a little frightening. If you use a paper matchbook striker, remove the staple first, because the staple can hook the stylus and rip it off or bend the cantilever. Just lightly stroke the stylus forward once or twice on each side on 45 degree angles to remove residue from the contact areas. That's it.

I've heard of the "Linn Wipes" but don't know anybody who has tried them or where to get them (Linn USA didn't even know what they were!). I use Record Research Lab LP#9 and it works very well for cleaning the stylus and I have not encountred any problems with this on any cartridge. This post sparked my curiousity about the LAST Preservative so I bought some but haven't had the chance to try it yet.

Dear Chazzbo,

Very good question. The GruvGlide product mentioned above goes on dry. It has no effect on cements used to bond the stylus to the cantilever, nor does it "creep" into the stylus tube. Like several others above, I agree it's a very fine product, easy to use, and you can hear an improvement, although it does vary, record to record. Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Hififile

I am not sure a week out if you guys will come back to this but what about mxing and matching these products?I have thought the homebrew as an everyday cleaner was good and the folks at LAST told me it would work well with their Power Cleaner and Preservative.I am cheap and when I found how much Torumat cost I said screw it.But a freind say's that reviews and postings seem to think that Disc Dr. is best as an everyday cleaner,not cheap but worth it if for whatever reason you don't want to use stylus liquid each play.I am with Extreme in that I worry about sloshing and creep.The tip is cemented on after all.But I wonder about mixing and matching different compounds.Lastly has anybody heard of Linn selling a 3M super fine grit sandpaper to accomplish what were after?Makes sense.Whereas liquid on a glued bond may weakn over time the ruggedness of a needle diamond or other hard material should be able to take a few swipes.The stresses of normal play and friction would indicate that.

What is funny about the last few comments ( including my own ) is the fact that this topic is related to the discussion of Last Record Preservative.

This product is highly volatile. After applying a small amount to the applicator brush, you must act very quickly to apply it to the spinning LP. Even then, it evaporates within one revolution of the disc.

The stylus has no way to come into contact with the Last in a liquid state.

If the poster who brought up the liquid subject was referring (off topic) to Last Stylus preservative, then It makes more sense. Still, I have not had any problems with siphoning effect in all my years of LP playing, and I applied some products many years ago that I shudder to think about now.

I prefer Record Research stylus cleaner LP #9. This and the Record Research LP cleaners are the only products I use other than the Last Record Preservative.

Depending upon the cantilever size, this "siphoning" effect (technically known as capillarity) is a real physical phenomenon, relating to the surface tension of the fluid vs. the tube size. I do not know if this will cause a problem with these products attacking the cartridge, but small diameter tubes (capillaries) will definately draw a liquid up them (sorry, its too late to figure out a better way to write that sentence). You don't see it much in a straw due to its large diameter, but it can be significant for small diameter tubes.

Agree with Jack and Detlof

Having had the same experience, even a little longer, I fully agree with jacks' findings.

I've never seen water siphon its way up a drinking straw, neither with pop, water, nor any other low viscosity fluid. I'll also add that I've never seen any fluid siphon its way up any cylinder (such as a hollow cantilever) on the outside surface, especially with a low viscosity fluid, even when viewed under a mid to high powered microscope.

I've used liquid stylus cleaners since the 1970's and haven't encountered any sonic denegration, nor accelerated wear on the various high quality cartridges that I've owned throughout that time.

Liquid stylus cleaners work very well, properly used.

Liquid is bad for the following reasons:

(1) Liquid weakens the adhesive between stylus and cantilever. (2) High-end cartridge with hollow cantilever will actually siphon the liquid into the inside of the cartridge from capillary action. (3) The evaporation eventually deposits a layer of grime on suspension elasto-meter and coil, eventually degrading the performance and accelerate the wear.

Further detail:

http://www.extremephono.com/Stylus_Cleaner.htm

Liquid is bad for the following reasons:

(1) Liquid weakens the adhesive between stylus and cantilever. (2) High-end cartridge with hollow cantilever will actually siphon the liquid into the inside of the cartridge from capillary action. (3) The evaporation eventually deposits a layer of grime on suspension elasto-meter and coil, eventually degrading the performance and accelerate the wear.

Further detail:

http://www.extremephono.com/Stylus_Cleaner.htm

Hififile, I have a suggestion that you might try.

After applying the Last solution, REWASH and RE RINSE the LP as if it had never been washed. This is best with a VPI machine in my experience.

The positive aspect of LAST remains, but the rewash pretty much returns the LP to the original sound (before applying LAST).

Gruvglide changes the sound as well, but rewashing after application removes the Gruvglide and the benefit it provides.

To my ears, Gruvglide somewhat compresses dynamics while rolling off the extreme high frequencies. It appears the cartridge brand affects the differences between these two products and the outcome of the test.

Those using Benz, Koetsu or Transfiguration (to name a few) usually prefer the Last treatment. Those with Clear Audio Insider or Van den Hul often prefer the Gruvglide treatment.

I'm guessing here, but this must be somehow related to stylus design, suspension and a combination of tracking and set up procedures for that arm / cartridge combination.

LAST has been out for many years and works quite well. I've used it many times. One thing I don't like about LAST is that once applied it won't come off, and it permanently changes & affects the vinyl. So if you don't like the sound you are stuck. It's also not real easy to apply. None the less good stuff.

I have been using GruvGlide and like that better.It does not affect or change the vinyl, record sound is definitely improved, very economical and easy to use. They are in the Audiogon manufacture directory under "G" or www.gruvglide.com (also stereophile recommended for years).

Hope this helps, and happy listening!

Thanks Swampwater for getting the spelling right and for your general warning. Cheers,

Detlof and others- Not only is the trifluoro-trichloro-ethyl(e?)ne harmful the to ozone (altho the amount used is very small), it also is harmful to groundwater if you have a septic system/well. You wouldn't want to spill it on the ground or have it go down the drain.

Last Preservative(used to be ? is? ) made up of trifluor-trichlor-ethylane. This stuff was used for spectography in the med. professions and could be bought in bulk. It worked just as well as the original Last factory concoction for a much cheaper price. I've stopped using it, because it is harmful to the atmosphere and I suppose that Last has changed its prescription as well for the self same reason. I also had used it for well over 15 years on many thousands of LPs.

I have also used the last preservative over a 16 year period and swear by it for all the reasons given above.

For daily cleaning just take 1 pt. of rubbing alchohol and empty it into a kitchen pot.Pour in a1 Gla. of distilled water add two or thre DROPS of clear dish liquid and if you want it to spread evenly use Kodak Photoflow to break up the lquids surface tension and spread more easily.A VPI tech told me about that brew and the LAST guys said they had no problem with it.But get the Power Cleaner of really gunky LP's.I've gotten stuff that seems close to chewing gum pressed into the grooves durring the Eisenhower adminastration to loosen up.LASTLY (heh heh) use the PRESERVATIVE.The guy at VPI who gave me the homebrew recipie also said he had nothing to gain by recomending it but he wouldn't go without it.Said he did demos at shows and people had played treated LP's hundred of times and sounded like a doz plays.If you really want to spend moneythe consensus is while the power and Preservative is good stuff if you want a comercial cleaner the Disc Dr. is best.I have used Tourumat but found it too expensive.I use the home stuff and mentioned LAST stuff on $500 Blue Notes.But above all you need a machine.A VPI 16.5 is the best value and mandatory.To preclean and save your tubes you could be really anal like me and use an Alsop cleaner or other pad.As important as the LAST is I would rather have a VPI and water than any chemicals at all.

Since I've been out of vinyl for quite some time, I have several unopened LAST kits. If anyone is interested, please contact me.

I've used LAST on at least 6,000 LP's, spanning a period of more than 16 years.

I echo all the other positive comments and must say that I am delighted that even my most frequently played records have maintained almost 100% of their original sound quality.

I endorse the comments already made based on my experience. I've applied the LAST Record Preservative to over 4,000 LPs over the past 12-15 years with no adverse side-effects.

Hi. I've treated some 1700-1800 LP's with LAST since about 1980, and think it is an excellent preservative, particularly if your vinyl gets a lot of play. As you may be aware, the abbreviation "LAST" stands for "liquid archival sound treatment". The chemical composition of LAST is intended to reduce the effects of wear by the stylus, apparently by bonding to the vinyl molecules. LAST is used by the Library of Congress to help preserve old recordings, which is a pretty good endorsement for the product's safety.

The purpose of LAST is not to make the recording sound better, except to the extent that it reduces wear in the LP's grooves. However, based solely on my own listening impressions, I think that LAST does make a slight but audible improvement in the overall sound, perhaps due to reducing the friction between the stylus and the LP.

In short, I think LAST is a good investment if you have a large LP collection that you want to preserve, or simply if you have some prized and irreplaceable LP's that get frequent use. I have only one caveat: make sure your LP's have been thoroughly cleaned before using LAST -- which you evidently have been doing.

I've used "new formula" Last for 10 years with good results and no side effects. Smoother, quieter sound. The original formula had problems with gumming up and the high frequencies would be lost. I have a few used albums treated with it and that seems to be the case, so I can confirm. Keep in mind that collectible and high fidelity albums lose value if you treat them with anything (and admit to it).