Longest Advisable Speaker Cable Runs?

Keep your amp between your speakers and purchase longer interconnects.

Hello. I manufacture cables and 30 ft. is not to long. It's dependent on the type cable used.
I'm not promoting my cables by any means. Just making reference that 30 ft. can be done.
I've made 75 ft bi-wires for a costomer that was very happy with the results.
Do your home work and find the right cable and you can do 30 ft. with no problem.
Hope this helps.

More specifically, what's the longest run of speaker cables I can run off a 10 wpc amp without loosing sound quality?

I run 20ft cables from my 10watt Sophia Baby. Mine are simple Vampire wire 12ga continuous cast copper hook-up wire.

Variables that are relevant to your question include speaker impedance (the higher the better); the variation of speaker impedance as a function of frequency; the type of cable; the criticality of woofer damping to the particular speaker; the output impedance of the amplifier; and possibly amplifier bandwidth and how much feedback the amplifier uses (the long cable conceivably could act as an antenna and introduce rfi into the feedback loop, if there is one).

So as a minimum let us know the make and model of the speakers and amplifier.

Regards,
-- Al

I would probably just recommend making sure you shielded cables with lower capacitance. With more details, you'll certainly get more specific recommendations, but in general, 30 feet isn't really a problem; it just means you'll have to be pickier about the cables you choose.

Thanks guys for the replies. I've heard the baby packs a good punch-it's a tube amp and mine is class AB solid. The amp is an Altmann BYOB and speakers are modified Klipschorns with Volti Horns and Beyma drivers. Being Khorns, the far speaker is way off in the opposite corner-about 30 ft from the desired amp position.

Speaker impedance is 8 ohm
frequency is 400hz to 6khz
The type of cable is undecided - any recommendations for long runs? I've had NacA5 but that's the only cable I know of meant to be used for long runs. No idea of critical damping.

The Altmann BYOB is a pretty esoteric peice so I couldn't find much of the info you listed Almarg. I'm not sure of the impedance but it's powered by car battery so there's a lot of power in reserve. Not sure of bandwidth or feedback.
I hope that helps and I appreciate your effort here.
Dave

Look into Supra and OCOS cables. I have used both for runs of 18 ft. with no issues. The Supra can be purchased through
Sjofn-HiFi (get the shielded set). The cost and return policy make trying these very low risk. Not sure who is selling OCOS these days but they are considerably more expensive, unless you can track down a used set, and I don't know if any OSOS dealers offer a return policy.

Agree with Jazzerdave. A good quality cable will degrade the sound very little. We went from 8' to 20' ( same cable ) without any audible difference. We could probably go with 15' but then the cables would be visible.

Byfo, The amp is an integrated with no remote, this is why I'd like it closer to my listening position-a shorter walk. It's interesting to know that Interconnects may be a better long run option for future reference.
Clio09, what is it about those cables that make them good for long runs? The shielding?
Jazzerdave and Tmsorosk, Shielded Cables with Low Capacitance is easy enough. I'll research cable companies with these attributes.
Almarg, I'd still appreciate to hear your thoughts on the specs if those gave you enough onsite to the gear and setup.
Thanks all,

If you don't mind your integrated between your speakers, you may want to compare the cost of installing a "Bent Audio" remote volume control to the cost of longer speaker runs that will be necessary.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for providing the additional info. You've got some esoteric and unconventional equipment there indeed!

As a consequence of that I would suggest caution in extrapolating from the experiences of others who may also be using low powered amps with long speaker cables. As you realize, your amplifier is a very different animal than the SET amps or other low powered tube amps that are more commonly used with high efficiency speakers. In contrast to those amps, yours clearly has a very low output impedance/high damping factor, as evidenced in part by its ability to double power as the load impedance is halved from 8 ohms to 4 ohms, and to apparently (based on the description) be able to handle 2 ohms with reasonable comfort.

That said, I agree with Zman's comment that you should be fine with the right cable. Choosing the right cable may be somewhat hit or miss, though, because there probably isn't much of a base of other users to draw upon who have relevant experience, given the presumably limited number of people using similar equipment in conjunction with long runs. So return privileges, or at least the ability to re-sell with minimal loss, are particularly called for.

I second the suggestions of low capacitance (which will help assure that the amplifier is happy) and shielding. I would avoid ultra-low capacitance, though, because that commonly (although not always) goes hand-in-hand with high inductance, which you also want to avoid for a long run, as high inductance (which is proportional to length) could affect transient response and tonality in the upper treble. The NAC A5 cable you mentioned is an example of a cable having ultra-low capacitance but somewhat highish inductance, per the specs listed in post no. 2 here, and I would avoid it for a long run such as this. Its resistance also appears to be uncomfortably high for a long run, corresponding to about 16 gauge. I would not use a gauge narrower than 13.

Clio09's suggestion of the shielded Supra cables looks intriguing. The Linc 2.5 corresponds to about 13 gauge, and the other two models to about 12 gauge, based on the resistance specs shown here. Inductance seems reasonably but not exceptionally low (based on what seems to be the safe assumption that "mH/m" means microHenries per meter, not milliHenries per meter). Capacitance isn't specified. I suspect that it is within reason, but you might want to contact them and ask. Anything significantly greater than 150 pf per foot would be grounds for rejection, IMO, given the uncertainty about the amplifier characteristics, with a significantly lower number being preferable.

Regards,
-- Al

I think Al has summed it up best in his last post. Regarding the Supra cables I believe the ones I used were the Classic series, although I don't recall exactly. Yes the shielding helps but the other parameters Al mentioned are more important. As for OCOS, they market themselves as the cable to use for long runs. I don't exactly get why from technical perspective, but I know it has something to do with their zobel networks that are available for use with the cables. There is a review on this in 6moons if you want to read up on it. I do not use the zobels with mine, but they may be beneficial with solid state gear.

Ok that's some great info. I'll look around for shielded Low & capacitance, but not extremely low. I'll also check for ratings less than or around 150 pf. I bet that will help other members in the future as they reference the blogs.
I looked at the Supra cable site and found that they're out of Sweden. That means big $$$ to me. OCOS site indicates Sumiko ownership --> $$$... Both are probably great products but do any inexpensive to mid-price cables come to mind? Such long runs are going to add up quickly on a per ft. basis.

As for the Bent Audio volume control, hat could be a fix for me so I'll check it out. I'd like to keep the system as simple as I can though. Could you post a link Byfo? I wasn't sure if Google took me to the right place.

Thanks to all,

For Supra cables if you are in the US give these guys a call:

Sjofn HiFi

If you click the link you will see that these cables are not that expensive. The set I bought was $26/meter per pair (S/Ply 3.4) but for $12/meter per pair you can get the Classic 2.5 that are also very good. You need about 9m so if you go with the Ply 3.4 it would be about $250/pair and if you go with the Classic 2.5 just over $100.

As for OCOS, Dynaudio now represents them and you can call the directly for pricing. Yes they will be pricier, but again you can look for them used.

I guess another low cost alternative could be Blue Jeans cable. Many here on the forum seem to like that company.

Bent Audio's website is
http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html
There are two different configurations. I am familiar with the stepped attenuator remotes. I have them in two of my preamps. His configuration is very transparent for a remote volume control. John is a class act and would be more than willing to help you.

I'll look into both those options. The Bent Audio Attenuator may be a bit to ambitious-I'm not much of a DIYer but I'll check it out. I'll also look to Sjogn for a Supra Cable recommendation and price quote. You guys are awesome. Thanks for all the help.
Dave

Tony (Clio09), it looks like the shielded Ply S3.4 is currently $36/meter/pair, rather than $26.

Dave, if you go with a shielded cable, such as that one, you'll have to determine a circuit ground point on the amp to connect the shield (the "drain wire") to. Since your amp is described as having bridged outputs, the negative (black) output terminal carries a signal, rather than being ground.

Regards,
-- Al

Thanks for the correction Al. Need to use the calculator next time. Still quite reasonable for such a long run.

20Ft should me the max.