Looking for ideas - new mono blocks for stereo music
Yes, you are absolutely correct when saying the NEW Duo/Solo Krell amps are not the king of treble. The previous generation EVO amps (such as 400, 402e, 403e, etc) were not pure Class A and had extreme amount of resolution. We were talking about taming those JBL horns, which are very bright metal dome tweeters. There are definitely better amps than the Krell for high frequency air/resolution, but the Krell Class A models will really smooth out those waveforms. It does make the treble smoother/softer, but it may be a very good compensation for those metal dome drivers in the JBL. Honestly, I’m not sure if the JC1 would have more resolution either, as it definitely softens the highs. I think the Parasound JC1 will soften and rolloff the highs. The Krell will just smooth out the highs, but the detail is still there. Based on your requirements for heat and sound, it may be that the Bryston 7b3 is your best bet. Hopefully, you will be able to hear how it sounds at some point. On your comments about the Esoteric preamp possibly being too harsh, I would suggest waiting until you have that preamp in your current system. Then you can see how things sound. I think the new 7b3 will be smoother/sweeter than your current 7bsst2, but the sst2 will help you gauge whether you need a warmer amp or not. If the sound of the Esoteric preamp is acceptable with the SST2, then you probably don’t need a warm amp. Tell you a secret, I just bought a pair of 7b3 a few days ago. They are on their way and I should have them on Tuesday. I can report back on a comparison with the JC1s if you want. If you get a warm amp, there is no possible way to increase the resolution. You can get a high resolution amp, and then warm things up if you need to with gold-plated connections (speaker wire, interconnects, and even power cord). |
@caphill I am trying to keep an eye on synergy as much as possible but sometimes that's easier said than done. Especially with the decline of local stores that carry enough inventory to demo all the options. I'd be happy enough to be able to demo the amps with similar speakers and front end. On the other hand, considering the price tag, in home demos should be an option for sure. @elizabeth It was most likely the EU that implemented those energy rules - but then I am from Europe originally as well. And nothing wrong with looking out for the environment. I didn't realize that Bryston dropped the idle power consumption on the cubed. Checking the manual for the two version it's 215 vs 80 watts idle and 733 vs 270 BTU/hour also at idle. That's some impressive numbers - thanks for the heads up. Since some of you jumped on my comment about the speakers, let me clarify what I meant. My thought was that going with a slightly warmer amp might give me a bit of a buffer IN CASE things get a little harsh with the Esoteric C-03X pre-amp in the chain instead of the Marantz. Right now, with the K-01X SACD player going into the Marantz and then the 7BSST2, the sound is definitely NOT too harsh or annoying. If anything, the K-01X sounds smoother (compared to the X-03SE) while also bringing out more detail. I think I also have a pretty high 'tolerance' and appreciation for treble - as Elizabeth called it: 'treble freak' :) @auxinput Krell is one of those brands that I initially thought of (since my go to dealer carries them as well) but for some reason didn't include in the list. Maybe because I haven't seen much about their latest models. The specs for the Solo 375 look rather good though. On the other hand, based on the reviews I could find it's not exactly a king of treble - ".. if what makes you happy is a lot of treble detail (apparent or actual), the Solo 375 probably isn't your amp." @nonoise I checked the link and got that it was for their mono blocks - strangely enough though, the manufacturers website didn't seem to list them (yet?). |
It’s not that the JBL 1400 is a "horn loaded speaker" that is causing you to think you may need something warmer to tame it. It is because the 1400 has a titanium dome tweeter as well as an aluminum dome midrange driver. The breakup of metal dome drivers will cause a bright edge to the sound and this can make you think you need something warmer. It’s entirely possible, but also keep in mind that the 7Bsst2 amps are very dry and forward - these can definitely sound somewhat harsh with metal dome tweeters. It could give you a very hard edge type of sound. Another thing to watch out for is amps/preamps that are very warm will, essentially, smear the high frequencies somewhat. This can also come across as harsh sounding, especially on metal dome tweeters. The Marantz 8802 is definitely very warm and will lose resolution or cause smear in the high frequencies. So, you already have two counts towards a harsher sound. I would say to get the smoothest amplifier you think you can get. If that turns out to be a Parasound JC1, then fine. It could also be the Bryston 7b3 will be very smooth with its revised Class A input stage (the amp is still Class AB). Another amp to consider at this point is the Krell Solo 375 or 575 monoblocks (575 is a lot more expensive - but I doubt that you will need more than 375 watts). The new Krell Solo and Duo amps using a sliding Class A bias that will give you the sound of bipolar Class A without the heat. The result is a very smooth sound. It has an ethereal and creamy quality to the midrange and will likely give you more resolution than the JC1s (the JC1s are based on a FET input stage which is not as clean or high resolution). Krell uses all bipolar audio stages. This new series is probably very much like the old Krell FPB series without the massive Class A heat. I think this will be a lot more forgiving on the JBL titanium dome tweeters and will not have the hard edge that many other amps will do. The sonic signature of Class A differs based on design. The Krell bipolar circuit "Class A" sound is very smooth and creamy and ethereal, with clean clear high frequencies. The Parasound / Pass Labs "Class A" type sound is more warm / thick with textured thick mids and could have softer rolled off high frequencies. It is entirely a matter of taste and desired result here. Finally, I would be careful of interconnect / speaker wire / power cord selection. With titanium dome tweeters, I would remove any silver or silver-plated elements in your system. Silver will push the upper mids/highs and make those titanium tweeters extra bright. It can also cause the midrange to be pushed into the artificial signature. |
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@eohtar If you're after warmer sounding SS amps in order to tame your tweeters on your JBL I would get the McIntosh MC601 monoblock amps (recently discontinued) or their replacement MC611 monoblock amps. Again all the amps that you listed above are great but it's a matter of sonic synergy with your speakers and the rest of your setup gears, cables, etc, etc.... It's all about system synergy as a whole. The perfect synergy and best pairings of all your equipments will achieve excellent results. |
Thanks again for all the feedback, suggestions, and good advice. After reading the responses numerous times and doing additional research on most of the amps online, I've narrowed it down to these models: Amps I can demo easily in Toronto: Pass Labs X260.8 - around 13K USD Bryston 7B-SST3 - around 11.5K USD Classe CT-M600 - around $13K USD Moon Simaudio 400M - around $6.5K USD but they seem more like a lateral move Others that sound (no pun intended) interesting but will be a lot harder to get a hold of in Canada: Parasound Halo JC1 - around 6K USD Liberty B2B-100 - around 6K USD That being said, let me add a few more details that make this harder (for me anyway). Class A and tubes are out of the question. My apartment is in an old building and without central ac it's already warm enough as it is. That's also the reason I don't leave my amps powered up when not in use. It's definitely going to be mono blocks again. While the current length of the XLR cables is 4m (that's the answer for @elizabeth ) and the speaker cables are 3m, it's always nice to have flexibility in terms of placement in the future. Time to line up some listening session after the long weekend. One more thing I didn't mention explicitly but it might have some bearing on the recommendation is that the JBL 1400 Array are horn loaded speakers with compression drivers. So maybe taming them a bit with a slightly warmer amp is not the worst idea. This has been a wonderful thread so far and given me some great ideas. Including some thoughts on upgrading the wires on my current amps. |
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I see two others have recommended checking out the PS Audio 300 mono's, and I'd agree that they are very much sonic contenders and worth anyone's hearing, but do be aware that they generate a decent amount of heat. My room gets hotter from that pair than it did with a VAC Phi 200 (and sounds better in my system, room, to my tastes, etc.). Also, they do use triode tubes on input, but that is a pretty easy tube usage to manage, nothing like power tubes. I would not hesitate on that account (but I come from the tube end of the spectrum, typically). |
Maybe these: http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/kinki4/1.html ? My Kinki EX-M1 integrated sounds a lot like what you're after: detail and resolution. The designer of the amp studied extensively Swiss design and brings it to you at a very reasonable price. I'd take your time and research it. 😄 All the best, Nonoise |
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@elizabeth those are some good suggestions - thank you. Especially the high gain idea is something I didn't even think of. And also the easiest to test :) The duplex the Brystons are hooked up to is the Furutech FP-15A-N1 (R) while the power cords are GutWire G Clef 2. The ICs are Nordost Blue Heaven XLR. So yes, there is some potential for upgrades but I don't really want to spend more on cables (also keeping in mind the state of the Canadian dollar) than what the amps are worth at this stage. |
By a good margin, the most transparent and open sounding amp I’ve had in my system was the Liberty B2B-100 made by Peter Noerbeck of PBN (my amp is a McCormack DNA 0.5 Rev. A). Liberty is his direct-to-consumer brand that benefits greatly from trickle down technology from his lauded Olympia amps yet are at a much more accesible price. This amp threw the most holographic and airy soundstage I’ve ever heard, which was likely aided by what seemed like a complete absence of background noise -- everything just appeared to be floating freely in completely clear, thin air. One of the really nice features of this amp is that it can be run in low- or high-bias mode. It sounds great in low bias but even better and more fluid in high bias, and although it runs a little hotter in that mode it’s still not hot like a pure Class-A amp. I left it in low bias when not listening and flipped the switch for critical listening so the amp was always warmed up and ready to play. Peter told me the amp sounds significantly better in mono-block form, which is saying something because this amp in stereo was quite special, and even in mono configuration the amps would only cost $6k for the pair. I’d bet Peter would grant you some form of a trial period if you asked, and given what you’re looking for I’d be shocked if you ended up sending them back. His amps are a well-kept secret in this hobby, unfortunately. Best of luck in whatever you end up getting. |
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But yes, Classe would have been taking a risk but less so now that they belong to Sound United. https://hometheaterreview.com/what-really-happened-with-classe-audio/ It would be nice if production even moved from China to Japan. |
Considering that Parasound left the Canadian market at the end of 2013 (I only found out when searching for Canadian dealers just now), I don't think that's a viable option anymore. Especially combined with the comment from @auxinput above. Maybe trading up to the 7BSST3 is not a bad idea after all. But at least there are dealers carrying Classe in Toronto. Time to schedule some listening sessions... |
Having direct experience with Parasound JC1s and A21, I will say that it is a very engaging amplifier for music. Very thick midrange, especially the horns. However, it is not a resolution beast. The Parasound voicing is definitely on the warm side of neutral with softer highs. It is very smooth and refined, but it is going to be a LOT softer than your current 7Bsst2 amplifiers. The traditional Classe "Class AB" amplifiers will be a good choice for resolution. It's difficult to say whether the Classe is going to be better or worse than Bryston 7b3. I have not directly heard either. |
As pointed out and to narrow this down a bit let's just go with SS (not really a tube guy anyway - way too OCD for tubes ;) ) and class AB. Being in Canada does limit my options somewhat and while I appreciate some of the more exotic suggestions, buying, let alone demo, them will be almost impossible. Parasound has come up twice already, so I really need to look into their options. Classe is another brand that I forgot to add to my short list. |
No doubt you'll get as many answers as there are members here. I use a pair of Sanders Sound Labs monoblock Magtech amps to drive a pair of Apogee Duetta II's. The monoblocks are $11,000 for a pair. I have used them for over four years with no problems, and Roger Sanders is a great guy to deal with. |
Are you leaning more towards SS or tube? For tubes I like Audio Research, Lamm, VAC, BAT. PS Audio BHK monoblock amps are excellent too. For SS, give a listen to the Vitus Audio, either their Signature series or their Reference series, and some Tidal and Soulution stuff if you have access to them. They are phenomenal. The Parasound Halo JC1 or the new JC5 are bargain considering their performances and are highly recommended. The recently discontinued Classe Delta CAM-600 class AB monoblock amps are also spectacular and can be had at discounts nowadays. Some higher end Naim amps are very musical and has very good rhythmic drive and are special. |
Not even a day in and already got some great feedback - thank you to everyone who took the time to post a reply. I'll be able to listen to the Bryston 7B3 as well as the Pass Labs here in Toronto. I already had a chance to audition the Grandinote Silva (single box 'dual mono' design) and was quite impressed with how the sound filled the room and was not tied to the speaker cabinets. Definitely had a lot of bottom end and punch. Hard to tell about resolution and detail as I could at the time only demo it with different speakers and unknown music. Let me dig into which of the more exotic brands that were mentioned I will be able to listen to locally. |
The primary focus is detail and resolution as I really love hearing new aspects of CDs that previous equipment couldn’t reveal.The new stereo Parasound Halo JC5 would have it all, it’s said to have been bought out for those who didn’t want to go to the 2 box JC1 Halo monoblocks. Still designed by one of the best John Curl up there with Nelson Pass. And won’t put too much of a hole in your pocket. http://www.parasound.com/jc5.php Cheers George |
That Marantz 8802 is nice, but it definitely masks detail and resolution. It's great that you are planning to upgrade to the Esoteric pre. The Bryston SST2 will likely be too dry and forward at this point (bordering on possibly too harsh, depending on system synergy). It sounds like you are going from a warm/dry sound to a more transparent/sweet sound by transitioning to the Esoteric preamp. Do you want to follow this route with the amp choice? Have you thought about listening to the new Bryston 7b3 series? From what I can gather from tiny bit of listening and discussions is that the new Bryston cubed amps are much sweeter sounding than the previous generations. Pass Labs is probably the most neutral FET based amp. It does still have some warmth, so it will not be "sweet" like the Bryston cubed or even something like a Krell. The normal Pass Labs "X" amps are more detailed. The pure Class A "XA" models are even warmer sounding. Levinson amps are very unique. I would highly recommend listening to one as they definitely have a unique midrange, but I think soundstage is rather narrow and compressed. You really need to hear it to decide. Not everyone likes the Levinson sound. If you are after detail and transparency, maybe you should avoid the pure Class A amps for now. The Class A will have more warmth, thickness and fullness of sound, but not as much detail, resolution and attack. |
