blueranger
Good to see the SA-10 still in your System.
Happy Listening!
Marantz SA-10 arriving Monday!
I've been hearing and reading all I can about this player during this last year. I have a 6005 right now and it's a nice player but not as good as my analog rig (10k) so it's not a fair comparison. Elizabeth mentioned that her SA-10 is better than her analog. I will be comparing the 2 SACD players side by side. I have at least 3 CD's in which I have duplicates. I'm fascinated about how the circuitry upsamples to DSD SACD. Well not exactly but somehow an improvement over Redbook CD. I have a 2" thick maple block coming in the same day for it. It's going to be a long weekend. I know it can't work miracles on all CD's. If there is jitter in the recording then supposedly you will never get that out. Speak up if I'm wrong about that.
282 responses Add your response
@jayctoy , I have a couple of test CDs (at least a couple) with the in phase/out of phase track on it. I don’t have a real good grasp of this stuff, but the more I think about it, I do not think that this is quite the same thing. I believe that the test track we are talking about would identify if one speaker was hooked up red to + black to - and the other speaker was hooked up red to - and black to +. However, I THINK that what the inverted/normal switch on the SA10 does would be to essentially change the signal from red to +/black to - on BOTH speakers to red to -/black to + on BOTH speakers. In other words REVERSING the way the phase was supposed to be set up. I THINK that this may be known as absolute phase, but I am not sure because as I typed previously, I do not have a tight grasp on this. In other words, what I THINK is that although you could hook your speakers up red to - and black to + on BOTH speakers, the system would pass the in phase/out of phase test track and would not sound all over the place when they performed the "in phase" announcement on the CD. However, I THINK that by hooking up the speakers as I just described, that would still have them out of absolute phase. At least this is what I THINK. On another audio forum I once asked a question about a preamp I was kind of interested in that I had read the specs on (I seem to remember it being a modded Cary SLP98) and I remember reading that it was wired internally with the phase reversed. (Once again, I THINK that this would have been absolute phase.) My question was why would a manufacturer intentionally do this, and I do not remember the answer, but the solution was suggested to be, when using that preamp, to hook BOTH speakers up red to -/black to +. And that is what I am THINKING happens by switching around the INVERTED/NORMAL switch on the SA10. Referring back to my original question on this subject, does "the European model of the wiring the balanced outputs on the SA10" mean that it is out of phase with equipment with the balanced inputs wired to the "USA model" and therefore, ideally, should the phase be inverted? |
@jayctoy , it seems to me that as far as phase goes, there can only be one way that is right and then that the other way must be wrong. When I first got my SA10, I did try it both ways, and my ears are not good enough to discern the difference. However, with that last typed, even though I consciously am not hearing the difference, it still may be that my subconscious would find one way more pleasing. (That subconscious/conscious thing gets a bit deep, but I do believe in it.) Anyway, you are right, @sharri is quite knowledgeable on this stuff, and I reached out to him in your SA10 thread. |
@jayctoy , here's my question about that: The manual explains that the USA system is pin 2 is cold, pin 3 is hot; versus the European system which is pin 2 hot, pin 3 cold; on both systems pin 1 is ground. The manual states that "This unit employs the European system." Then it goes on to state that "If a product that employs the USA system is connected with this unit [the SA10] via a balanced cable [which I am using], the signal may be phase-inverted. To correct the inversion, set the "Phase" to "Inverted" at the menu setting." My SA10 is connected to my preamp, which is a Cary SLP 05, via balanced cable, and Cary is not saying in their manual whether they are employing the European system or the USA system so I am ASSUMING that they went with the USA system. So as I understand the SA10 manual, I should be setting the Phase on my SA10 to ’Inverted’? Since my preamp is using the USA system?
|
Stereo-one Let it settle for at least six days.Then play good sacd recording . Don’t expect too much yet.. Just keep on playing it. I bought this player open box as well af MD.Remember it is still your job to synchronize it to your system , and make it sound musically good. This is truly a very very good sacd player .Every time you add something on the system sounds changes.The SA 10 competes with esoteric sacd players. I still believe for 5k it’s a bargain, it’s a well design player.Esoteriic are amazing but you have to pay premium price.Do I miss my esoteric sacd player? Not at all.
|
@jayctoy , how do you have your phase switch on your SA10 set? Do you set it to "Inverted" or to "Normal"? The instructions in the manual have me a bit confused on that subject.
|
Stereo5 thank you posting your gear,The Sa 10 will give you more 3D using balance, if I were you to get the most out of SA 10 get a nice power cable and ic . The SA 10 responds to cables.Find a tornado Audioquest source pc and used Columbia Audioquest balance ic.If you have the budget go for used Tellurium black diamond balance ic.Iam using tornado pc on my Ruby with good result. I know you mentioned except aq pc but that’s what I used . I can’t help it , it works. Puron tweak eliminates edgy. |
Thank you jayctoy, That's encouraging, the burning time I had was about 24 hours on red book CD side and 24 hours on the SACD side. I had an SA 11S3 that was a very sweet sounding player that played all my CD's very nicely. But it just wasn't engaging one dimensional as opposing to three dimensional. So I ended up playing vinyl 95% of the time. A third of my collection is CDs and that's why I wanted to get the SA 10. I'm hoping the SA-10 is as sweet as the SA 11s3. But with more three-dimensional characteristics. After the SA-10 is broken in is that what you're experiencing? My system is a BAT VK preamp with a Macintoch MC152 Amp and Tara lab speaker cables with audio quest Ruby interconnects. |
@stereo-one , my SA 10 was a "factory refurb" from MD, so I really do not know what its previous history was prior to me buying it. In other words, it may have already experienced its breakin period. What struck me first and foremost was that with the SA10 my system had way more gain than with my previous CDP and I believe that this was due to using the balanced outputs of the SA10 into the balanced inputs of my preamp. I originally thought the sound of my system with the Sa10 was more "aggressive" (if that's the correct term), but I do not have a golden ear and what I am describing as "aggressive" may be my perceptions due to the extra gain of my system with the SA10, or it may be possible that my "factory refurb" did actually need some break in time. Regardless, it now strikes me as a smooth presentation and I find most SACDs to be a step up from most red books. I have read that the "SA 10 presentation" is "laid back," but, again, "laid back" may mean different things to different listeners. Personally, with a good disc (be it red book or SACD) I do not find my system to sound edgy with the SA 10 in place; however, I do hear a lot more detail now. But the detail I am now hearing I think may be more due to a recent preamp upgrade I made (SLP 05) than the SA 10. I am generally pleased with the sonic presentation of my system with the SA 10 in place, but perhaps I should not be used as a barometer as my standards are probably not as high as those of others due to, as I stated previously, my lack of the golden ear.
|
| Post removed |
Are there power cord recommendations other than Audioquest? I have noticed that with the wrong cable the sound can quickly become thin. I did not expect that from a player described as warm and full-bodied. I thought a fast and dynamic cable would be great, it may also sound a bit "thin". That doesn't bother in the combination. Man was I wrong. |
Phillyb you are right on the money, the SA compete with my analog set up, The dynamic of the SA 10 is unlimited.using good pc will give you more. I read a review of the SA 10, the reviewer said, He thinks it’s the best sacd player regardless of price? Of course not, But it will keep you sitting on your chair longer than you plan. |
SA-10 is a stellar multi-talent player. This replaced an Esoteric K-01 which was great, but I don't miss it at all. I enjoyed my time with it. The Marantz needs a top-grade power cord, I found the Audioquest Blizzard and Thunder to bring out all the musical ability this player has, I heard it sound thin, all by switching a power cord, so this tells you how important a power cord is the 1st piece of gear that will feed the rest of your system. The power supply is larger and you can tell because the chassis becomes very warm, while past players like the SA7s1 did not. My Esoteric got very warm also in fact much more, due to it having 4-transformers in the power supply. Well made CD players are like phono cartridges, each gives you a different balance of sound, Esoteric was upfront, dynamic taking no prisoners, the Marantz is about balance, elegance, more laid, back but more natural sounding, it does not throw music at you it presents it to you so you feel like your listening to a performance in from of you. It can rock, the bottom end can shake your room if your speakers are up to it, yet the midrange and highs sound just right, open, airy, with vocals having body and weight to them to sound real. A very nice player, grab one while you can, sounds best using XLR outputs. |
Hi Anwar, I followed your advice. It plays beautifully from my 32GB memory stick. But I have plenty of other old music (80GB) which are from my mp3 collections which I will never really be able to get on my CD. I occasionally listen to this, though the sonics are not really of the standard that the SA-10 deserves. But still old music has its own charm. So I purchased a 128GB memory stick, which I had to use a different formatter to format as FAT32. Once this was done, I copied around 700 folders with less than a dozen files in every folder. I stuffed it into the SA-10 and it played everything flawlessly, and taking no more than 30 seconds to read the stick. But when later it went into standby and i restarted it, it would almost get frozen in "loading" mode and i became a bit worried. So I pulled the pen drive out and reformatted it, and again loaded the files, this time fewer files. The same thing happened. Initially loading took 30 seconds, I played a full day of music, and next morning when I restarted it, the SA-10 took more than 5min before i once more became worried and switched to a different input. Now I dont use PC audio anymore, after getting the SA-10 and cant live without my old MP3 music either. So regular CDs and SACDs apart, how does one carry on with the 80GB of old mp3 music? thanks a ton for looking. |
@cool_jeeves As long as you use USB stick or external/portable SSD (such as Samsung T5 rated 5V 0.8A), it will stay under 5V 1A. The limit specified by Marantz is: This unit can display a file structure with up to 8 levels, up to 1,000 folders and up to 2,000 files in 1 folder. My recommendation is to use USB storage below 500 GB, otherwise SA-10 struggles (takes too long) when reading the folder structure after SA-10 input switched to iPod/USB. Please also note that Windows 8 or 10 cannot format large USB storage as FAT32, need to use third party tools. |
Hi Anwar. That is pretty good. I will certainly try. But my USB stick is only 32GB. Can only download limited stuff. I will need to burn DVD blanks for DSDs and listen to them. Which is what I have been doing. But interesting that USB can also be done. What max capacity pen drive do you think will stay under 5v 1A? |
@cool_jeeves Format the USB stick as FAT32, otherwise it will not get recognized. Also, USB stick or external SSD power consumption must be less than 5V 1A. I’ve tried Samsung EVO internal SSD as external drive (with SATA to USB adapter) and it does not get recognized. Please organize the songs in the USB stick by folder, then from SA-10 remote, press the MODE button to browse the songs by folder. Browsing folders can be done using the 4 arrow buttons + ENTER above MODE/TRIM. Once you start playing song with ENTER button, skipping songs use the regular buttons. I recommend you try listen to free DSD downloads (from the USB stick) as the SA-10 sounds the best with DSD. https://dsd-guide.com/where-can-you-find-dsd-music-downloads#.XjPSLGgzZaQ |
I got an SA10 for myself a few months ago, and I must say that it is an incredibly natural sounding player, plus great detail retrival, slam and musicality. I spent serious time on RCA vs XLR, and settled on a suitable pair of XLRs (VDH Second). I want know two things - is there a concept of a firmware update? should one screw around with this given that the player is doing very well as it is ? Secondly, how does one play off a USB stick? how does one control browsing? When I try it just says format "unsupported". |
Big Chill was poorly mastered. But it also was out of absolute phase. If you are using XLR's with the SA-10 go to settings and check the phase and reverse it and listen. I check all my CD's to make sure my phase setting is correct. Some gear pin 2_is hot or cold depending on the gear, but many recordings including vinyl were recorded out of absolute phase. My Quad speakers really let you know when the phase settings are wrong. |
Here is a repeat of a post I put on AudioAsylum. This thread seems more active. I will add that the player is still pretty new, and that I have not yet swapped out the supplied power cord with a Shunyata Venom that I have on hand. Well, I finally gave in, and in an act of self-indulgence, ordered an SA10. It arrived Monday, and I'e been listening through it for a few hours by now. I must say that it sounds wonderful. I have not done any A/B comparisons with the SA14 (tedious and not fun), so my impressions are based only memory, but here they are, in brief. The main difference, I think, is the big improvement in imaging realism and especially depth and ambience. Singers and instruments, and the relations among them, are much more clearly placed. Before the SA14 I had an Onkyo CD player, which sounded okay but gave a very flat presentation. The SA14 was a big improvement, but still didn't come close to matching my vinyl setup in that regard on CD's (SACD's were better.) Two examples: 1: the wonderful Maazel recording of 'Enfant et les Sortileges" gives a marvelous feeling of where the singers and instruments are and of the enclosing space, esp. in the garden scene, and 2: Zizi Mueller's performance of Crumb's "Idyll for the Misbegotten. In the latter, on vinyl, the flute sounds very focussed but very distant (the score notes say "as if across a lake") The SA14 gave a sense of depth, but the SA10 does much more. In both the flute tone itself is very pure and beautiful, but the vinyl gives it more texture. In addition to better imaging, there is also better rendition of inner detail, both on SACD and CD's. The SACD version of Patricia Barber's rendition of "Summertime" on her"Distorsion of Love" is absolutely breathtaking: one can hear every subtle nuance of her phrasing and shaping, and the bass line is also excellent. Another example: the recording The Magic Flute (with Fischer-Dieskau and Schwarzkopf) now sounds fabulous on CD. I had written before that, through the SA14, the CD could not match the thrill of the vinyl recording. Now it comes close: spatially, and emotionally. Although, at least in my setup, the vinyl has a bit of extra thrill in the soprano voices, the CD version is just about as fun overall. I do think my cartridge is faster. For example, in the cat duet in l"Enfant, the "pfffft" sound is stunningly fast and clean on vinyl, but on the CD sounds breathier and a bit blurred. I have 60 days to decide if I want to keep the SA!0 or the SA14, and I suppose I really ought to do some A/B tests before deciding if the very great extra expense of the SA10 is worth it to me. So far, I think it is. However, I must say that the SA14 is very good and an outstanding value. If I send it back to Music Direct, someone should snap it up. |
Hi SA-10 owners, anyone tried changing the footers of the player? I took out the original footers and replaced it with 4 pcs of IsoAcoustics Iso-Puck, a product meant for pro audio / studios, pretty inexpensive. I was very surprised with the improvement in sound quality (more analog sounding and better definition), especially when spinning CD/SACD. I know IsoAcoustics has the OREA series for home audio but more expensive. Definitely worth trying the Iso-Puck, especially if purchased from merchants which allow return. |
| Post removed |
No the Esoterics and Sony's and Marantz have been fine, not to say they never would have issues. Japanese players I've used have work and worked well even after I sold them one 15 years later and still was going it was Sony CPA 7ES. The 1st player that blurred the Vinyl copy to the CD copy. The small boutique ones are build from using OEM parts, the 3 I've used all had issues and one had several due to the design and they replaced it with 3 new ones. The last one worked the best. They make good amps and preamps so I will not say the names. But lessoned learned. One of the best power cords for the Marantz' and others that float the ground, 2 pin IEC inputs does not cost an arm or a leg, it is the Luxman Power Cords JPA 1500 this cord came with my C800F preamp and I never used it due to being a "stock cord" well I did finally try it and my jaw dropped. The key is plugging it with the right polarity (Pins are both the same so you can flip it), The Luxman as a polarity check on the back on the preamp and lights up if the plug orientation is wrong with the writing facing up the light turns off showing correctly polarity. With the arrows and writing fact up above the ground opening, not facing down towards the ground input. I purchased a 2nd one to try with the Marantz SA-10 and again a home run. I tried it on my Sub Woofer that using floating ground also, 2 pin IEC and the same positive impact. So good I no longer look for a power cord for these units. This same cord is used for their high powered amps also. Even a reviewer said the stock cord was really good. Not that expensive and beat others costing 3-4 times as much, so good design by Luxman. This lame argument of vinyl vs. CD no longer is an issue, it now more the quality of the production itself. Vinyl sucks and so does CD if the source is badly recorded, compressed, or just processed. I grew up with vinyl. So the SA-10 is real good, Esoteric K-01 is really good and some others with today's DAC's used and 30 years to understand the format, much like viny improved between the 30's to the 50's the sound quality was night and day better. Digital also had the same growth. I have 1,300 plus CD's some collectible and no way am I going to start over and rebuy what I already own again, and some will never be on vinyl. I love vinyl but I don't miss it one bit nowadays that how good these new generations of players are. Today your room as more impact on the quality of sound than any current CD player or Turntable or stream file. The formats are just that good today and in the present, I like the physical so I will keep buying, those who like portable music and buying on tunes they like Streaming downloads work great, but that is not my cup of tea. |
I've had mine for 4 months and it finally broke in thank god that was a long time!. Using many types of music, the best I've heard was dither off, Filter 1 and noise shaping 3-1. This gave the most transparent, dynamic and superb balanced sound. I used piano, stand up bass, Trumpets, and Vocals. Some all by themselves. These settings were the ones that made it feel like the players were right in the room with the correct tones, weight, and dynamics, natural. Dither 1 rounds things off and warms things up but in a bright system or unnatural like many systems today that would be a good choice for the dither 1 or 2 which might bring the weight and soul back to the music. After break-in, the SA-10 is outstanding in CD and SACD and USB flash drive files. Burning some music for compilations in WAV and even MP3 playback great and musical, WAV outstanding of course. Great value and worth looking into grabbing one, my past players have been Esoteric -X1, K-01, Marantz Sa7, Sony SCD1 and others that I had but had nothing but problems, some big boutique names who use OEM parts and some caused issues with other sections of the player, like overheating and shutting down and not reading discs. Stick with the Players that are built and designed from the ground up like Sony's, Marantz, Esoteric and a few others. |
| Post removed |