I listened to these very briefly on a visit to my dealer the other day, but not critical listening.
The sound was nice and detailed but they do not have the "big speaker" sound that I am used to with my X3's' Having become accustomed to the X3 sound I do not think a stand mount will cut it for me any more. |
Been breaking in a pair of X3 for 30 days and maybe 120hrs of actual 70-85db of volume level thru them. Borresen claims 500 hrs of break in for full performance. These X3 need plenty of break in time. I can’t see most dealers having them played enough at levels needed for break in for proper demo. If you see these at shows( which are usually demoed by a Next Level Hi- Fi )these are new speakers with basically no break in. Next Level are great guys to deal with but really don’t do a very good job of highlighting the Borresen X3 . Always paired with the Axxess Forte amps, I think they sound much better when paired with a class AB amp. |
Just my respectful opinion ladies and gentlemen: Many audiophiles worry too much about resale value and what’s gonna replace my loudspeakers next month or next year. Just find a loudspeaker you’re delighted with in your system and can afford, then ENJOY! Personally I purchased the X3, and I find it more musical than the KEF Blade 2 I owned for 6 years at half the price. Yes, one day I might upgrade to the C series but no time soon. Enjoy the music! |
Hi Helomech, guilty as charged. My confusion likely comes from lars appearing at both axpona events in consecutive years demonstrating each brand. I’m quick to dismiss the C and D line just because $$$ is justified with words that sound made up in a marketing department. The x line is new territory and I want to hear it before dismissing it.
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You probably read in the PTA review that the X3s are a 3-way speaker. That is incorrect however, they are 2.5-way, so the top most woofer does play the bass freqs. This is visible if you view the cone excursion from the side when playing a bass heavy track. My dealer also confirmed they are 2.5-ways. To the best of my knowledge, none of Børresen’s models are 3-ways, as he apparently takes issue with the phase challenges posed by such designs. Regardless, the 2.5-way X3s manage a midrange clarity that’s superior to that of most 3-ways I’ve heard and definitely better than any other speaker I’ve owned, so the fact it’s a midwoofer as opposed to a dedicated midrange makes them all the more impressive. |
@Steve59, Michael Børresen was the chief designer for both Raidho and its sister company, Scansonic, until a few years back when he left to do his own thing under his own name. It’s surprising you would ask such a question, considering this post you made in another thread:
I would’ve figured you had already known that based on the above assertion you made over a year ago. I actually shared some of your suspicions though, prior to auditioning their entry level models and seeing the exceptional build quality they entail. Normally I don’t consider any five-figure HiFi product to be a good “value” per se, considering the BOM and performance of most products I encounter. The Børresen X series has proven to be one of those rare exceptions. It’s especially surprising because I don’t buy into many of the marketing claims and “technologies” touted by Audio Group Denmark (Cryo treatment for example). Initially, I visited the Børresen dealer to demo some of their Perlisten towers, since I typically gravitate toward speakers that measure well. I was quite taken aback by how the Børresen X series performed relative to the similarly priced Perlistens. The X speakers were clearly a class above. I would like to get my eyes on some measurements of Børresen’s X speakers because in my current setup they do everything well and are the most balanced sounding speakers I’ve had in this room among dozens. If they don’t produce anything near textbook linearity when measured, that would support a hypothesis I’ve had at times that perhaps driver distortion (or lack thereof) and quality matter more than absolute linearity, dispersion, and time alignment. Anyhow, I highly encourage you seek out an audition of the X series. You might be pleasantly surprised as I was. BTW, I repeatedly see posters criticizing Børresen for employing “4.5 inch” woofers in many of their models. It’s perhaps unfortunate that Børresen describes these as “4.5.s” because in reality, the measured cone diameters are more in line with other brands’ 6 or 6.5” woofers. In fact, the actual cone diameter of these “4.5s” (a full 4.5 inches) is very close to that of the “7 inch” Seas Excel woofers I have in some other speakers. The combined surface area of the three woofers in the X3s is nearly as much as that of true 9” woofer cone.
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Are raidho and borrensen the same company? Both dub their ‘affordable’ line with an X. And they kinda look like they come off the same line. Regardless, as Mr Hursh used to say, if you like this sound you’ll like this speaker. I got to listen to the 02 when they were coming out, in an unfamiliar room with ears ringing from riding a motorcycle I left unimpressed. I always leave the D 1.2 demo stunned at how good they are. Enjoy your new speakers. I hope they play well in your room with your components. |
How much if any did they alter the soundstage? I have only about 10’ between my listening spot and the speakers so am reluctant to raise their stance any higher. |
I have recently added the Axxess Noir Resonance Control footers to my X3's Brings the speakers to a different level, pricy but my dealer gave me a 30% discount, well worth it at full retail (-; Axxess Noir / Resonance Control | Audio Group DenmarkAudio Group Denmark |
Perhaps it was you who was “drinkin” since you completely misinterpreted my post, presumably due to a failure of reading it entirely. I did not claim that 30-year-old speaker(S) can compete with any $11K speaker manufactured today. I merely implied (quite coherently) that some flagship designs from yesteryear are still competitive with many modern designs when one adjusts for inflation. In fact, some brands have actually regressed in terms of objective performance. For example, some of the Focal and Revel designs of recent years actually measure worse than their predecessors in terms of linearity and distortion. Having owned over 35 pairs of speakers and having auditioned countless others, both modern and vintage, it’s my experience that most advancement had come in the form of inexpensive speakers generally performing better than in previous decades. But in terms of higher performance, go audition a flagship Spendor, Revel, or JM Lab from the 90s and compare them to their current flagships, and you might just begin to share my sentiment. My main point is that it’s typically fruitless to read into the marketing claims regarding a manufacturer’s allegedly disrupting tech. More often than not, that speaker tech/approach has been done before, sometimes decades earlier, by another manufacturer. Funny enough, I only returned to this thread because I recently acquired a pair of Borresen X3s. They are indeed a great speaker, especially at their street price (who really pays full retail anymore unless buying from an outlet like Crutchfield???). For the price I paid, I consider them a good value. Are they world-beaters or best of class? Honestly, of that I have doubts. They don’t do subwoofer-like bass extension, so right off the bat they have a shortcoming compared to some of my previous speakers, but overall they are quite enjoyable. Sound quality aside, in terms of outright build quality and finish, they are superior to much of the competition I’ve encountered in the same price range.
The problem with your argument regarding the frequency at which they release new models is that you mentioned completely different price brackets. The C series might be newer than the X series (though I believe that may be incorrect), however they are considerably pricier for like-sized models. From the prices I’ve researched, they have yet to release a series that significantly trespasses on their other like-sized models, nor made any particular series “obsolete.” Thus far, the few pair of X Series speakers I’ve seen on the secondhand market have retained their value better than most brands, especially considering most were bought new for less than MSRP. I was told there is something like a three-month backorder on the X series speakers, so allegedly the demand is high for the time being. I can sympathize with being bitter over a product’s poor resale value. It sucks when that happens. That’s why these days I tend to buy pre-owned speakers when possible. That’s really the only way to ensure one doesn’t take a bath down the line, even with brands that generally retain high resale value, it’s hard to predict the future of many specific models. I once bought a pre-owned, late-model Mac preamp thinking I’d be able easily flip it for little loss due to Mac’s typically good resale. Turned out that was mistake—I took a big hit on that piece because apparently that model in particular just doesn’t hold its value like other Macs, despite the fact it was/is in their current catalog. Regarding Raidho specifically, it’s my understanding that many of their speakers were very finicky about placement and gear synergy. Perhaps that was the real driver of their disappointing resale? Just a hypothesis. Or perhaps you paid retail or close to retail for a brand-new pair, when most buyers were getting better deals on their new pairs, and subsequently that was reflected in the resale market values? After all, I find it’s quite common to get as much as 25% off MSRP when buying products in these price ranges, often times without even having to request a discount. Not suggesting you definitely paid full retail, but if you did, that could account for some of the perceived value disparity.
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@mbmi Thanks!! remind your electronics please |
@dave777.................I'm really into "music" and how life-life it is, coming out of a 2 channel hi-fi system...addressing your bass concern ( the purists will hate this but it works) Schiit Audio has a unit The Loki Mini @ $150. It's clean as a whistle and doesn't distort or affect the sound at all but will allow you to boost that bass slightly and take any harshness out of bad recordings.....try it, also when I added the Ansuz Mains 8 Power Box with the active Tesla Coils....wow , that was a difference maker...took the X3's to a totally different level of sound realism....Worth looking into. |
@tlittlefield @mbmi team Borresen, I own the X6 I bought it 2 months ago and I am really happy with the speaker however I am experiencing that the bass is not as deep as I though and I am wondering if it is the speaker, the electronics or the room? Maybe is that I am coming from Wilson Audio which has an addicting base Please share your comments For Borresen hatters let me say that hey launched a game changer speaker on the M series and from there they are updating all their lines. From outside seems confusing but think as 4 steps X, C, T and M and all are amazing and each series sounds better than the other. Off course not necessary the M would sound better than and X because system matters and M is not a forgiving speaker. You need the best of the best to make it sound good. So having 4 steps is good as you can find the right speaker for your system. If you want to upgrade they take 100% of value on your Borresen. Buying used equipment off course is an option too with all the risks involved. I don’t think there is wrong side, I don’t regret buying it new but I will also not against scoring a great deal on a used equipment, though I don’t see the market full of used Borresen soon |
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I listened to the X2, X1 and X3 at different times. I liked the X2 at first but it had poor center imaging, drove me nuts. liked the clarity and dynamics though. Listened again a few weeks later to the X3 and X1- I heard the shifted center image right away and this time they each sounded forced and unrefined compared to my speakers. |
I bought the Borresen 03's a year ago. Phenomenal speaker. I've never heard such a deep or detailed soundstage. Now that they have two whole speaker lines slotted above the 0 line, however, I have to say I am a little less excited about my purchase. I never had that issue, especially so quickly, with Vandersteens, which I owned for many years. Kind of a bummer. |
@helomech says "I’m sure the Borresens sound great but the whole R&D and advancements notion is mostly false. The marketing people would like us consumers to believe that’s the case but in reality there exist 30+ year old speaker models that would compete with nearly any speaker in the X3’s price range. Speaker tech has long been more mature than most audiophiles realize. The difference these days is the number of different models that compete at the top echelon, and some at a relatively lower price when adjusting for inflation. Say What ? 30 yr. old speakers sound as good as any $11K speaker today...That’s quite a statement.....It’s too early in the day to be drinkin’...... |
I’m not a borresen owner or dealer, but I’ve heard the X3 speakers a couple times, and I was absolutely blown away by them each time. And that’s saying a lot for me, an old audiophile who’s heard more than his share of great speakers over the years. I must say---I agree wholeheartedly!!! Over the last few years, Borresen has been just knocking the ball out of the park all over the place, especially with their simply amazingly affordable and super high value X3 speakers. So much so, to my ears, the combo of the X3 speakers, even driven by one of their entry level, all-in-one integrated amps, sounds so incredibly compelling, they could very well and quite easily be quite enough for a many a discriminating audiophiles. Just one mans opinion. Yes, I was extremely impressed. Happy listening. |
I’ve been looking at X3 reviews on YT which of course are great and listening to them insofar as you can in these videos. The one thing that strikes me, in the Borresen ones, why do they insist on using unfamiliar, highly processed synth music- makes it even more impossible to gauge the sound. Who knows what this music should sound like. That said, I would still like to hear them in person, and will this Fall. I’m moving and would like to update my speakers- B&W 801 S2 Mk III that I bought new 25 yrs ago. Powered by McIntosh and Krell. I know its diminishing returns, but aesthetics and engineering aside, can I really much of an improvement in dynamics, clarity and sound stage? As example, I just bought a new DAC. It definitively sounds different, but I can’t say its better that the old one.
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@emergingsoul people from Borresen has said a lot about the components they use. You can find interviews with them on YouTube. Maybe people on Agon is more focused on resale value than sound or internal components. I have only heard the O5 model but that was goid. Also out of my budget even for a used pair. |
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I’m sure the Borresens sound great but the whole R&D and advancements notion is mostly false. The marketing people would like us consumers to believe that’s the case but in reality there exist 30+ year old speaker models that would compete with nearly any speaker in the X3’s price range. Speaker tech has long been more mature than most audiophiles realize. The difference these days is the number of different models that compete at the top echelon, and some at a relatively lower price when adjusting for inflation.
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It’s definitely eye Candy. We’ll see how long this fad lasts I might be getting new speakers and trying to get back to the more traditional way of listening to things Beyond all the chemically created new fabrications. It’s all about marketing and appearance and you don’t know what to Believe. We all like pretty things to look at in our living room. sonus faber is a very pretty speaker and b&w is pretty. JBL was more conventional and is very nice. Wilson is ugly but I hear it’s very nice. Rockport is very nice looking but isn’t doing very well. focal might be nice but it’s kind of ugly. tekton might be good but the front appearance looks like a weapon of war. Estelon is a fashion statement and maybe it sounds good. Alta audio is very nice it looks like a good speaker. And McIntosh tries to do speakers who knows if these are worthwhile but definitely pricey. Crazy crazy process to make a decision |
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@deep_333 I have an entire loom of Kabala Sausna realization! 6k will get you C2 level Ansuz Mainz. I bet that is what it is! It’s a decent cable for a DAC or streamer don’t get me wrong. |
I think the X1 was 5500 plus 1000 for the stands(all in at 6500?)at Nextlevel that night but I agree with hsounds..I love Borresen designs,Ive owned the Raidho C3 which were 40k when i bought them and the Scansonic 3.5 and 2.5 which even to this day I think the 2.5 is or was an amazing deal....So again not hearing the X3 yet im sure its a good speaker ,you just cant buy any Borresen new full retail,thats a sucker game.Wait a year and score!!!!! |
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